Protools Users, how do u do it >>>>>>

[bduffy]

Well, that's interesting because I was just reading that article about JDS in CM (I'm sure many read that, cos of the BFD offer!) where they frankly admitted that they use almost ZERO outboard gear now - they do it all in Logic, all plug-ins, and it's not hurting them at all. They also pointed out that 2,000 people in a club aren't going to be like, "this isn't analog enough!" At the end of the day, it's probably only us who give a shit.

eyeknow666 - it was a little late when I wrote that, I didn't mean it to sound negative; I totally dug what you were saying. I do, however, want to disagree with the notion that merely recording in PT gives you more "polish". But if you can really hear a difference, I believe you. Would you say it's about 20% better?

[whyterabbyt]

it's all so relative...........

I really do think though that after using a bazillion hosts.......the protools RULES even with the limitations.

No, the limitations suck big-time. They're the main reason I use a different host. Dumb limitations like the number of audio tracks it can play back,, or the number of plugins you can use per track.
And not having any real choice of soundcard.

Oh, or the fact that it doesnt have native VST support unless you use a wrapper, which you've already told us makes a different host 'way behind'.

Lets paraphrase one of your own posts.

"The thing is that rtas was going to be the "next big thing" but stienborg's vst/i's have won out in the real world. Luckily someone did the wrapper thing to try and "patch" and appease, but they havent even announced native.

RTAS is not a good format imho, I have had terrible problems with it vs vst's.........vst's are not perfect but it's the "popular" format."

I really really don't belive when I hear things like "protools is the main pro app because it's been around for so long".......I think there is allot more to it than that.

I dont. I still get people who don't know anything concrete about the subject tell me we should be using ProTools because that's what everyone uses.

It basiaclly always works.........

Nope. Not always.

everything sits the way it is supposed to

Bollocks. For example, its plugin instrument handling is the most retarded in existence.

And how many native RTAS synths are there again?

Its a f**king great linear audio editor. It still hasnt caught up with the sequencer industry at all, though.

it highly useable.

...As long as you don't want to use it for something outside its limitations.

To paraphrase you, again

"It's the bucks that get me down on ProTools. Why? because instead of getting a kick butt program when I paid 800 bucks for LE and a humdrum USB soundcard, I got nothing special. I needed 200 bucks for the "real" version of SampleTank, then another 100 for the VST-RTAS wrapper, and then it's "hey, kick another 100 to upgrade so you can run it on Tiger".........and it just never seems to end AND although 6.7 was a significant upgrade/improvement.............that's more money than I've spent on sonar and reaktor...........and that stuff is more usable."

Oh yeah, and if you bought a Digi001, you wont have been able to upgrade past 6.4 unless you actually bought a entirely newer soundcard, and dont expect suport for your MBox to last much more than another year or two either, because Digi like to keep you buying new hardware as well as software upgrades.



Or dont these things count when you're a PT fanboy?

I used to teach PT (and still support it now) and its still absolutely great for audio for video (except that it costs you another 700 quid just to get frame-based timing, which is the biggest f**king RIPOFF in the sequencer industry), but there's no way it competes on features with any modern sequencer. If you want something with a great audio-editing workflow, but the sequencer feature set of the lowest end of the shareware market, and a totally proprietry mindset designed to tie you to one specific company's products, then hey, maybe its for you.

But, to the original poster; no, its not evolved nearly as much as any other comparitive audio/MIDI host out there. It still lacks an awful lot of the stuff that's been around for years, and it certainly lacks the kind of features that the current versions of hosts are leapfrogging each other with.

[Midi_Glider]

PT is much overrated and hyped. I worked with it for years and ditched it for a more slick "modern" DAW program. PT is just too slllooowww and cumbersome.

Another thing worth considering is that people doing serious softsynth work in PT will often write in Logic(or cubase or whatever) and just *mix* in PT.

why the hell would one want to use separate apps for sequencing and mixing? hello!! this is 2005! that's how I use to work 10 years ago...never want to go back to that!


Best,
midi.

[bduffy]

Well, Whyterabbit has confirmed my darkset fears! That's reason enough for me to be happy with my measly Cubase setup. Phew. And I have no idea why you'd want to compose in one and mix in anothre - but it's not a foreign concept.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well, often the people writing are studio clients, not the producer/engineer himself. They'll bring in their cubase or logic files, and the studios will convert the projects to a pro-tools session.

It's not really that big a deal: export external MIDI parts as MIDI files. Bounce softsynth tracks. Import everything into PT. Sounds like a pain, but surely its not nearly as tedious as auto-tuning vocals for 12 hours or editing a whole drum track. My point is that it's just the way things are if you're working at a major studio, like it or not.

(and I don't).

[josevin2000]

man... thanks for all the feedback... i dont wanna wage war here... i do a lot of my work in midi, and use a lot of VST i's... Up until PT LE 6.4, the last version i worked on, Protolls had still not made major advances in its midi features..

but i know many dudes making amazing music with it , and thats wahat counts at the end of the day.. so maybe i aint too fond of PT, but i aint gonna bitch abt it... Purely out of respect for those who make incredible music out of it...

i was only lookin for some feedback from protools users about any advances made in tthe software in the midi and soft synth dept.. i dont browse digidesign anymore so i am unaware abt the latest version and also the latest features...

[hello1234]

edit forget it........

you win whiterrabit.......you win.........

thanks for pointing out the obvious......whew.......what would I do without you.

[bduffy]

And lest we forget: good talent can make good music on anything.

[SleepyP]

yup. this ties back in with what i was saying earlier: i feel that because the relative cost & difficulty of entry have gone down with the advancement in technology, many many more people are making recorded music than was previously the case, and i feel it's a sad fact that a good portion of those really have no talent and shouldn't be turning out tracks at all but do anyway for whatever reason. i suspect i might be one of those some days
in the case of this specific area we've seen the cost of entry into the world of PT come down a whole helluva lot with stuff like M-Powered and M-Box. a friend of mine is a pro audio engineer guy with about a decade of experience doing a variety of work "in the industry". he recently told me he's kindof annoyed about the M-box, which he feels isn't up to ProTools quality. he swears by his Digi002 and PT. since i fall into the "never used it, always wondered what the fuss is about" category, we've had some long discussions about if it's really great or if it's all hooey. he personally really likes working with it, and likes his 002. does he not like the M-box because he's jealous that people can now get into PT Land without spending $2000? or is it really genuinely a pretty decent product to use? maybe a little of both?

[koolkeys]

I'll say it again. PT get's an unfair bad rap by some people here. I'm not going to doubt anyone's talent or knowledge here, but some people just spew crap from the wrong side of their body. I'll give you these points:

Pro Tools is behind in the MIDI department

Pro Tools does have limitations by not supporting VST's

Pro Tools CAN be very expensive

Pro Tools isn't the best for everyone


However, here are some hard facts about PT:

Pro Tools is the LEADER in the professional audio industry, bar none. I'm not talking home studios. I'm talking the "industry"

Pro Tools is a VERY stable host, more stable then most

Pro Tools has come a LONG ways to reach to the budget market. Sure, they are not "caught up" yet in some people's eyes, but I'll explain this in a minute.

Pro Tools is more accessible than ever

Pro Tools has so many more features than many people even try to realize.

Pro Tools DOES compete with modern sequencers(This one is purely subjective).


Plain and simple, while not for everyone, PT does work. It just does. Every sequencer has limitations of some kind. PT has a few that I agree probably shouldn't be there. But the limitations aren't as drastic as people show them to be.

Here's the cold, hard facts. Just cause an artist says in CM magazine(mostly synth based music) that other methods are used doesn't mean that's the new "law". People still do, more than ever, use PT. Next in line in Pro level studios, Nuendo. Want proof? Come meet me in Nashville, you'll have all the proof you need. The vast majority of music you hear on the radio was tracked, edited, and mixed in PT. Why? Because PT got to where it is first.

Now, you may say, why is PT behind compared to some sequencers? Simple. It wasn't designed to do what they do. It was designed for the big studio, and it was designed around the hardware. It wasn't until recently that they even considered all the "extra" features. But with version 6 and up, some of the greatest improvements have been made. And once you learn the hotkeys or at least your way around, for most people it's a dead easy to use solution. And now it's getting those features we so direly require in today's sequencers. I know beta testers of PT, and I can say that more is on the way. It's hard to say, with the way things are going, what direction Digidesign will take. But so far, it seems they are getting where hosts like Cubase and Logic are.

I say these things to bring us back on topic(kinda). Between 6.4 and 6.9 where it is now, MIDI has been improved, as well as alot more. And with version 7, it's planned to get even more. If you are skeptical, you may want to wait before taking the plunge. It may not have what you desire yet. It's way of handling synths is similar to the days of the analog console, and may take some getting used to if you never worked that way.

That all being said, and to make a long post longer, PT is NOT for everyone. Hey, I don't use it all the time. I use T2 for my own stuff. I would love to use Sonar 5, as it looks to be ready to become a new leader. It's a truly exciting time. Software is in a place where you have a ton of options. And not using PT doesn't make you less "pro". It just makes you work differently. Try them all out. I don't always recommend PT to people. I don't always recommend T2 to people. I work here in Nashville and I will say that it's sad that some people don't know they have the options they do. So go ahead, experiment. It's alright!

I don't mean to start any arguments. It does kind of agrivate me when people make useless comments with no backing just for the sake of arguing, which happens alot here. I've done it too at times. But if your intention is to start a fight, forget it. I don't care. I really just want to help.

If you have any PT questions that I can help you with, let me know. Or others around here. In all honesty it does have a ways to go in some areas. But it's getting better. We'll just have to wait and see what the future holds. Peace, ya'll. And remember, it's about the music, not how it's made.

Koolkeys

[koolkeys]

Oh, and the MBox is a pretty decent item to use. The Pre's are good for the money you spend. However, no MIDI(MBox 2 does though, I believe), and I think it is still using USB 1, which I've never had a problem with. But it's a great mobile solution. You may want to consider other options out there also to be fair. But you of course don't have to use PT with it either. There are several good budget solutions out there like the MBox. It's late or I'd link you to some. Sorry, I must sleep now.

Koolkeys

[hello1234]

edit, whats the point........

[Pantsdown666]

recognition of time signature changes.....

you mean host tempo recognition ? that'd be great for wrapped delays etc ..

[Nev]

That presupposes that digidesign cares about your working style. Pro Tools is a studio standard, so you have to adapt your system, working style, and possibly soul to conform to their specifications. This is especially true with TDM systems.

Fair enough. Bad choice of words on my part. I meant more check the feature set and see what it can do.

Nev

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