mixdown rendering and dithering problems

[chrismuktar]

Hi all,

I'm trying to mix down a track from 96khz to 16bit 44khz using tracktion; but I find that the output audio file sounds tinny and metallic and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. I've played with the export settings to no avail, still no solution.

I've recently upgraded to a presonus firepod and this is my first mixdown with it. It used to work fine with my Tascam US-122, but I recorded at 16/44khz back then.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Chris

[Lunch Money]

The actual soundcard won't have anything at all to do with the tinniness of the mix. But the way you have it wired (physically or with its 'virtual mixer' control panel) MIGHT be affecting the way the mix is delivered to your monitors/headphones.

When you're just listening to any other track, is it still tinny and metallic-sounding, or does it sound as it should?

One thing you COULD do is bypass Tracktion's dither. Disable T's dither and put an instance of MDA dither at the end of your master channel chain instead. See if that helps!

Greg

[chrismuktar]

Well if it helps to shed any further light, I reimported the rendered tracks intro a new tracktion track and played them back, thereby ensuring the routing and other settings where homogenous... I'll try other dithering options tomorrow; has anybody else had problems with tracktion's dither?

Cheers,~C.

[IIRs]

I reimported the rendered tracks intro a new tracktion track and played them back,

In the same edit with the same settings? If so, Tracktion was upsampling your 44.1KHz file back to 96KHz before sending to the soundcard.. try quitting Tracktion and playing the file with winamp or media player.

For future reference, 88.2K is probably a better choice than 96K if your target rate is 44.1K, as the final sample-rate conversion will be less damaging.

[chrismuktar]

I tried it with windows media player; same thing again!

[hello1234]

Well if it helps to shed any further light, I reimported the rendered tracks intro a new tracktion track and played them back, thereby ensuring the routing and other settings where homogenous... I'll try other dithering options tomorrow; has anybody else had problems with tracktion's dither?


Cheers,~C.

Yes, I have had problems with rendering/t2

I really don't have any suggestions to help since none of my other hosts have this problem.......

[stash98]

I bypass rendering..Tapeit2..best plug in I have bought. It captures what you play to a 32 bit floating wav (if you are mixing in 64 bit)and then you can take that file and Dither it in Izotope..Soundforge..waves l3..whatever.

[Lunch Money]

I've never had a render/dither problem, so I'm of no help. Other people have had various "problems", but I don't think I've ever heard this "tinniness" issue that you're having. I wish I was more help.

Greg

[djsubject]

export at the same sample rate & convert outside of T2

cant think of any other idears

Subz

[audiobot202]

Another vote here for Tapeit2. Sad to say, but T2 does have some rnedering issues in my own experience. I record using Tapeit at a high bitrate and then I do everything else incvluding bitrate conversion and dithering in a dedicated editor. Makes it a lot easier and bypasses any Tracktion bugs they've not yet fixed.
For me, certain combinations of VST plugins just rub each other up the wrong way in Tracktion and if I use the internal render, they just sound completely different. Tapeit2 is your friend Great quality and you record exactly what you hear, so no messing about ! You just have to leave some CPU headroom for inserting it in the Master slot at the end.

[hello1234]

I've never had a render/dither problem, so I'm of no help. Other people have had various "problems", but I don't think I've ever heard this "tinniness" issue that you're having. I wish I was more help.

Greg

No, that seems to be something in itself.

Not saying this is what you did but.......squashing the holy f.... out of things can make it tinny.......?

[hello1234]

Another vote here for Tapeit2. Sad to say, but T2 does have some rnedering issues in my own experience. I record using Tapeit at a high bitrate and then I do everything else incvluding bitrate conversion and dithering in a dedicated editor. Makes it a lot easier and bypasses any Tracktion bugs they've not yet fixed.
For me, certain combinations of VST plugins just rub each other up the wrong way in Tracktion and if I use the internal render, they just sound completely different. Tapeit2 is your friend Great quality and you record exactly what you hear, so no messing about ! You just have to leave some CPU headroom for inserting it in the Master slot at the end.

I'll have to check this tapeit2 out.......

[hello1234]

I used this once, I don't remember why I didn't vibe on it.......so questions......

Isn't the reason we use a host to do the recording and mixing (no, really, I'm not trying to be a smartass) so is there something I'm missing? Just seems like an extra step to me................

I look at the little freebie and can't for some odd reason, understand why the other stuff is "that" important.

I know it's because I don't know the product.

Maybe an explanation of exactly how it's chained/used includeing any cpu/memory hogging if someone would be so kind?

[audiobot202]

People like me use Tapeit because for some reason known only to Jules, Tracktion does not correctly render certain instruments or combinations of instruments. For example, I have one instance of Superwave8 plus Chordworx. You'd think that would render ok, but when I do so in T2, each note sticks and bleeds into the next one making it sound ridiculous. Tnen I might add a few instances of the included JX10 synth. For some reason, adding more than one sometimes seems to make them both screw up and not make any sound at all. Just idiosyncrasies in the program I guess. I have this issue because I use a lot of VSTs. Others may not if they use it differently.
So, Tapeit, I usually drop into the master slot when I am ready to record down. Then I just press play and record everything at high bitrate through Tapeit. It records as you hear it, so even if a plugin renders incorrectly using T2 internal render, Tapeit records it fine as I hear it.
It's a workaround and it's very annoying that the bugs have not been ironed out and it frustrates users like myself, but I hang on hoping that eventually it will be addressed in a future release. But for now, Tracktion does not like certain VST plugins. Unfortunately the list of plugs it hates seems to be greater than other popular hosts, making the Tapeit workaround necessary for people like myself.
Tapeit doesn't seem to hig too much overhead by the way. It's really just a file recorder.

[hello1234]

Actually, I like that idea.....even if the way it's being touted is a "workaround" for what a host should do anyway.

Thanks for that info, it may be a necessity even on other hosts.