Tracktion Software

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:38 am

I thought he was touting punchy and not overly tight or flat mixes. Is any of his stuff still around to DL?

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:49 am

cpom

Sascha Franck wrote:
Frippertronix wrote: It doesn't surprise me, Sascha, that you didn't even care for Kingston's production work, the simple reason being: he's himself and and you are you.
Most likely... but then, why even try to tell us about some "absolute" truths?
I mean, really, the mix I listened too (maybe it's even been two mixes) sounded so much squashed to death I couldn't believe it. All that even considering that I totally suck when it comes to mixing and mastering.

There is no engineering principle for good art, period.
Seems like it...

He speaks in absolute truths because he has overestimated the implications of his expertise. It's not phase distortion that started the arguments here, it was sweeping judgements about the quality of other people's production sensibilities. 3 band compressors as a mixdown tool don't create The Phase Distortion Effect, as in "Hey, I know what this mix needs to really shine, The Phase Distortion Effect!!! Doh! Why didn't I think of that before?!?!"

The overall effect of a multi-band compressor in the master bus is an effect that does many things to the musical content and impact of the piece. Phase distortion is a problem with that effect, it's not the whole effect in itself.

If you want to say "I won't use that application because of phase distortion" fine, that's a reasonable concern. But it is wrong to act like everyone is deaf because they aren't running around the room shrieking when they hear the effect of a 3 band comp on their mixes.

My question to Kingston or anyone that has rallied to his call on this subject is this: do you use BBE on all of your masters, set to a high degree of process? If not, then what's wrong with you? Don't you realize you have phase distortion

coming out of your monitors constantly, or do you only use electrostatic headphones to monitor?

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:55 am

I definitely have phase distortion between my ears. But that's not a problem unless what's between my ears is also causing phrase distortion, in which case I won't understand a damn thing anyone's saying.

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:58 am

Lunch Money wrote:I definitely have phase distortion between my ears. But that's not a problem unless what's between my ears is also causing phrase distortion, in which case I won't understand a damn thing anyone's saying.

I think every piece I write has phrase distortion.

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:01 am

Either that or pharce distortion.

multree · Post by **multree** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:01 am

Lunch Money wrote:I definitely have phase distortion between my ears. But that's not a problem unless what's between my ears is also causing phrase distortion, in which case I won't understand a damn thing anyone's saying.

thank god the phrase distortion is not in the time domain... other wise you wouldn't know if you'd understand anyone cuz they exist a bit earlier or later than you ....

hello1234 · Post by **hello1234** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:03 am

Lunch Money wrote:I definitely have phase distortion between my ears. But that's not a problem unless what's between my ears is also causing phrase distortion, in which case I won't understand a damn thing anyone's saying.

oh you crazy lunch money (that's money not monkey/note to eyeknow......)

Frippertronix · Post by **Frippertronix** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:04 am

Lunch Money wrote:I definitely have phase distortion between my ears. But that's not a problem unless what's between my ears is also causing phrase distortion, in which case I won't understand a damn thing anyone's saying.

Maybe someone should educate you about all that phrase distortion. I think there are some overlapping crossovers in your neural net.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:42 am

boogooloo1 wrote:I think you might have meant "dynamic" mics...

Yes of course.

Cheers!
bManic

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:48 am

Sascha Franck wrote: Any sound examples?
The only Kingston mix I've heard so far was so much overcompressed (even to my less than mediocre ears) that it'd be compeletely pointless to even start talking about compressor quality, simply because everybody could achieve such a level of overcompression with the cheapest floor pedal around.
Sorry, no offense meant, but that was all I heard up until now.

AFAIK the mix you heard was the one he posted right after composing the tune. It was mixed in bad accoustics and a part of it over headphones as well, I think. I recall commenting on that mix exactly like you did. Since then I've heard a much newer version of the tune and it's definately much better now.

Kingston does use compression a lot but he uses it as an effect. The truly heavy pumping and grinding is simply his sound it seems. I've not always agreed with that but one can't really argue 'taste'.

For demos of his older songs you should check the thread he started today. Sorry, can't be bothered to search for a link right now as I'm on my way to bed!

Nite!

bManic

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:45 am

Sascha Franck wrote:
jmh wrote:
IIRs wrote:.. if Kingston knew as much as he pretends to, his mixes would be so good they would need no further processing..
They are - haven't heard better stuff from a KVRian so far, and with each progressive step the gap is widening
Any sound examples?
The only Kingston mix I've heard so far was so much overcompressed (even to my less than mediocre ears) that it'd be compeletely pointless to even start talking about compressor quality, simply because everybody could achieve such a level of overcompression with the cheapest floor pedal around.
Sorry, no offense meant, but that was all I heard up until now.

It's good that others have chosen to respond to this and assure they weren't offended by this

Anyways... it's up to Kingston to deliver. He posted two songs to the Music Cafe section yesterday, which are from the demo well received by Sound On Sound's Business end section. My comments are based on hearing a lot more of his stuff though. I did try to get him to post something else too, but under the circumstances it might not be the best idea...

Granted, my opinion is based on the musical content as much as the production values. I've only heard one other KVRian's stuff that has impressed me as much, and in that case it was more about the music than the production. I do have to admit that I don't listen to that much stuff from the Music Café, but that's because... if the description of the music doesn't peak my interest, I most likely won't bother. My KVR MP3 folder used to have about 250 files though, so at least I've listened to some of the offerings

(just recently grabbed some things from that thread where someone was asking about material where you play, haven't listened to them yet though

And have a dozen or so other MP3s from KVR waiting to be heard too...)

Here's hoping though that one of these days Kingston gets a deal and people get to hear everything he has to offer.

Regards,

JMH

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:54 am

re posting your work here ...

... greg was right on all counts ...

... as far as im concerned the freedom with which we can dick around with each others work is one of the TRUE strengths of the community here (look at the popularity of UTMs copyright-breaking contest mashups each month) ... its part of the sharing of creative ideas that epitomises KVR at its very best ...

(all my posts here have been from a member-first-mod-second viewpoint BTW ... but then (for those that dont know) thats the stance i always try to take)

slainte

rob

Watto · Post by **Watto** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:08 am

Ah, well, at least now I know.

Still, you didn't answer my other question - is that Ben's stance also?

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:40 am

Rob Could you clarify it further - if one specifically asks/denies that people do not redistribute their work, be it in original or altered form, will you and/or KVR deny requests to delete links to such?

It does arouse my curiosity, as in my eyes this is somewhat stepping to the original author's toes regarding copyrights and such trivialities - that stuff mentioned in the rules even

I know, this is getting sidetracked (as if the thread wasn't already), but as a mod-first-then a user, your stance in this matter... makes me wonder. Leaving out all the "don't post if it's commercial" etc., and creative views and how it might give something back to the artist and so on.

We could rephrase it like this: will you delete links to unauthorized files at the request of the original author? Will other mods?

Regards,

JMH

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:36 am

jmh wrote: Anyways... it's up to Kingston to deliver. He posted two songs to the Music Cafe section yesterday, which are from the demo well received by Sound On Sound's Business end section.

These are quite better than what I heard allready. Still I found portions of them to be too squashed for my likings, with some transparency getting lost.
Anyways, that might be my taste.

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