Chamberlin + Mellotron: Complete Newbie needs Advice

[dougsyo]

The other option would be use a hardware sampler/work station - this would be a costly route too.

Or you could get one of these.

That's hot!

I don't know that I'd buy one ... but it looks great!

Doug

[emdot_ambient]

The other option would be use a hardware sampler/work station - this would be a costly route too.

Or you could get one of these (at the auditorium, you will need to be a member to download it).

Personally i use M-Tron plus the three extra tape banks.

Mr A

Mmmm, it sounds good, too.

However, if you can play from a PC, M-Tron is 100% authentic, flaws and all.

Take a listen to my piece Epsilon in a New Orleans Pale. It's 5 instances of M-Tron (4 different strings and one flute). The strings are run through a fliter to give them swirly sweeps and everything's run through a reverb but other than that, it's 100% M-Tron.

[mooter]

Personally I would recommend a sample cd of Mellotron sounds such as Mellotron Archives because you have more control over the sounds than the M-Tron + am I wrong but the M-Tron doesn't have infinite sustain, right?

[Failed Muso]

You won't get much better than these for samples....

http://www.hollowsun.com/cds/newtron_page.html

Check out the review in Sound On Sound in October's issue. They love 'em

[winegums100]

Ya can't beat a good old fashioned rackmount sampler! I would never trade my Akai S5000 in for a PC based one (though I do have several on my PC's), but I like the more 'hands on' approach to music making (analogue keyboards etc).

Winegums100

[emdot_ambient]

Personally I would recommend a sample cd of Mellotron sounds such as Mellotron Archives because you have more control over the sounds than the M-Tron + am I wrong but the M-Tron doesn't have infinite sustain, right?

Depends on whether you want an accurate Mellotron sound or an idealized Mellotron sound. M-Tron replicates the Mellotron in all its glory and all its limitations. It does not loop the samples, it does not compress or noise reduce the samples. And the controls on it are only slightly better than the original Mellotron -- i.e. it has an Attack and Release envelope, which the original didn't. Other than that one difference, and the fact that changing "tape banks" doesn't require pulling the guts out of the beast, it IS a Mellotron.

If you're looking for an idealized Mellotron with clean samples and infinite sustain, then you have to go with more traditional sample libraries like the Akai ones.

[Mr Arkadin]

If you're looking for an idealized Mellotron with clean samples and infinite sustain,

Please don't talk smutty round these parts. Infinite sustain indeed

[hollowsun]

am I wrong but the M-Tron doesn't have infinite sustain, right?

Depends on whether you want an accurate Mellotron sound or an idealized Mellotron sound. M-Tron replicates the Mellotron in all its glory and all its limitations. It does not loop the samples, it does not compress or noise reduce the samples.

Neither do mine - my Tron samples are just the audio output of a Tron M400 straight into an S5000 sampled full length ... as raw as you're gonna get 'em!!

Yes - I have looped them because as an ex-Tron owner in their heyday back in the 70s (showing my age now!!!), apart from their unreliability, the fixed length tape was its biggest restriction and was very frustrating.

Although the M-Tron presumably has this 'limitation' as well, it doesn't suffer from another problem the original had - that the return springs wouldn't always return to the very start of the tape. This meant that not only did you have a nasty, clicky attack but you could never know how much time you'd get out of any given note.

The fact that my Tron samples are looped doesn't mean that you have to sustain them for hours on end but you do get that extra flexibility if you need that extra half second or whatever in an arrangement. Your argument could be levelled against many instruments that don't have infinite sustain but still most libraries will loop them.

As it happens, looped Tron samples are actually quite satisfying as it allows atmospheric pedal drones and other possibilities I could only dream about on the original. When I originally had my Tron, I used to write for TV and theatrical productions and to produce atmospheres, etc., using the Tron, I had to record it and make up tape loops. Not any more!!!

If you're looking for an idealized Mellotron with clean samples and infinite sustain, then you have to go with more traditional sample libraries like the Akai ones.

Mine is an "idealized" Tron that's true... it's the Tron that I (and countless other Tronists at the time) always wanted (and the Tron that Isao Tomita created using it with his colossal Moog modular and clever recording techniques - heavenly, ethereal, floating, brutal, gothic, surreal ... add your own adjective) but mine are not "clean" or sanitised or processed in any way - they are as raw and and genuine as you're likely to find (except that they don't grind gracelessly to a halt after 8 - or less - seconds)!

Steve

[hollowsun]

Please don't talk smutty round these parts. Infinite sustain indeed

Ha!

Steve

[Failed Muso]

Personally I would recommend a sample cd of Mellotron sounds such as Mellotron Archives because you have more control over the sounds than the M-Tron + am I wrong but the M-Tron doesn't have infinite sustain, right?

Depends on whether you want an accurate Mellotron sound or an idealized Mellotron sound. M-Tron replicates the Mellotron in all its glory and all its limitations. It does not loop the samples, it does not compress or noise reduce the samples. And the controls on it are only slightly better than the original Mellotron -- i.e. it has an Attack and Release envelope, which the original didn't. Other than that one difference, and the fact that changing "tape banks" doesn't require pulling the guts out of the beast, it IS a Mellotron.

If you're looking for an idealized Mellotron with clean samples and infinite sustain, then you have to go with more traditional sample libraries like the Akai ones.

I seem to recall that when M-Tron was released, G Media made a big thing about how they had recorded the tape banks in to Pro Tools one at a time and used various clean up & NR plug ins on them. I'm also pretty certain that they didn't even use a real Mellotron to play the tapes back in to Pro Tools.

I could be wrong. The original G Media pages were more detailed when it first came out.

Don't get me wrong tho', M-Tron is a top instrument, but I certainly wouldn't say it's "raw and untouched"

[emdot_ambient]

I seem to recall that when M-Tron was released, G Media made a big thing about how they had recorded the tape banks in to Pro Tools one at a time and used various clean up & NR plug ins on them. I'm also pretty certain that they didn't even use a real Mellotron to play the tapes back in to Pro Tools.

I think you are mistaken there. I remember reading in the M-Tron literature that no tape clean-up was done. They certainly didn't do any pitch correction or clean-up to remove tape noises, as some of the tape banks have severely bum notes on them. The flute part in the song I linked to earlier had to be edited because the note on which it resolves in the false ending had a bad bump or click in it. That came from the origianl tape bank used, not from something in my Cubase project (though it sounded a lot like a digital glitch in the final mix). Listening to the sound raw isolated the problem as a bad tape noise from the Tron they used.

And I believe they did sample these directly from a Tron. I know they did do some mic recordings of the one Tron that didn't have a direct out plug, recording instead from the built-in speaker in the Tron.

[emdot_ambient]

am I wrong but the M-Tron doesn't have infinite sustain, right?

Depends on whether you want an accurate Mellotron sound or an idealized Mellotron sound. M-Tron replicates the Mellotron in all its glory and all its limitations. It does not loop the samples, it does not compress or noise reduce the samples.

Neither do mine - my Tron samples are just the audio output of a Tron M400 straight into an S5000 sampled full length ... as raw as you're gonna get 'em!!

Yes - I have looped them because as an ex-Tron owner in their heyday back in the 70s (showing my age now!!!), apart from their unreliability, the fixed length tape was its biggest restriction and was very frustrating.

I've heard that from other former Tron owners, and read that from famous producers who worked with the beasts over the years. It's funny how the legendary status of an instrument will make some people want nothing but the pure experience, even if that pure experience was frustrating to people who used the gear before in its day.

Although the M-Tron presumably has this 'limitation' as well, it doesn't suffer from another problem the original had - that the return springs wouldn't always return to the very start of the tape. This meant that not only did you have a nasty, clicky attack but you could never know how much time you'd get out of any given note.

Excellent point. I've wondered about that (how fast the original tape mechanism could rewind).

The fact that my Tron samples are looped doesn't mean that you have to sustain them for hours on end but you do get that extra flexibility if you need that extra half second or whatever in an arrangement. Your argument could be levelled against many instruments that don't have infinite sustain but still most libraries will loop them.

Like GPO?

Again, it's all in what you want. If you want to make a song that emulates old Mellotron songs, you have to make sure you don't hold notes over the maxium of about 8 seconds. The physical nature of the Mellotron forced players to adopt an unnatural staggered playing if they wanted to hold chords for a long time. If you just want to use those amazing sounds for ethereal pads and non-immitative infinitely sustaining chords, then loop away.

Mine is an "idealized" Tron that's true... it's the Tron that I (and countless other Tronists at the time) always wanted

And being the humble owner of a lot of the old Hollow Sun free samples--THANKS!--I would recommend anyone interested in the Mellotron sound to look into Steve's product. I'm sure it's fantastic!

[Failed Muso]

Like I said, I could be wrong, but I remember the G Media site having loads of stuff about "The Making of..." but this stuff has long since gone and I'm sure they detailed how they recorded the samples.

Anyway, either way, the M-Tron is a good VSTi and well worth the money, although I personally prefer to use my sampler which allows me more flexibility.

[Mr Arkadin]

personally prefer to use my sampler which allows me more flexibility.

Flexibility? With Mellotron sounds? Really, the youth of today

[Failed Muso]

Really, the youth of today

Sir, you flatter this old man