Tons of off-topic BS inside! Sweet!

[snooky]

djverne:

as I said no, I haven't..I know that they are terrific! but still..overhyped and ultimately, won't make you any better of a musician or a producer..

[brianbrian]

Someone who talked to the guys at the UA booth @ AES said that the PMB will be out by the end of the year, for $249. Space Echo won't be out until early next year

[urosh]

My response should be : "I know those are impulse
responses , I can fukin read letters on the bottom of that
graph. I want to know WTF is importance of that for
music ?"
However there is no point in continuing this . I asked
you snooky cus I had sneeky suspicion that u dont have
faintest idea what that graph shows ( I'll come on that
later ).

first I agree with you 110% regarding :
it's really annoying, just make some music damn it!!

If someone cant drive its not important if that someone
is trying to drive BMW or Fiat.

Only thing of great importance is , imho, good
monitoring.

What amaze me otoh is how quickly these discusions
slip into pseudoscience. If people want to get into
technicall discusion, be prepared to learn something
before, or leave it.

Recently there was one very sad example of this:
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index. ... a4c59f7cb0

!!!!warning reading that thread can seriously damage
your health!!!!!

Basically there u have bunch of audio engeneer with
absolutly no knowledge of subject they are talking
about and u have some complete idiot named Johnny B
who is on Holly Crusade of Ignorants to smash down
Ivory Tower of science and common sence. So he fires
bullshit like DSP chips bug lists and symbol coding
for minimum error transmision and he generaly doesnt
have a clue what is he talking about. But rest of the
guys also dont have a clue so they fire back with equal
amount of poo. And that on for 32 pages of horror.

Endless discusions on irellevant isues you know nothin
about wont help you make better music.
Only hard work will.

Now snooky u asked for it, rest of the KVRians will
blame u for this nerd attack :

There are no scientificaly valid proofs that we hear
above 20kHz. In that case Sampling theorem (wich if
invalid means our whole science is invalid) states
that u need samplin frequency of 40 kHz or more.
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SAMPLING THEOREM
What is problematic is implementation of that sampling
theorem.
First snook, that graph. There u have family of
sin(x)/x functions, which are impulse responses of
so called perfect low pass filters. These are math
abstractions which are part of sampling theorem.
If we really dont hear above 20k , that response
above 48khz would be perfectly good. Thing is
there is no such thing as perfect LPF. Thats why
we have 96k and 192k. But , you must trust me on this
one, in cheaper gear most people are using, there are
much worse issues than sampling rate. There is first
sampling clock stability, there is S/H precision,
there is quality of analog section and quality of
dithering. Something like Lavry Blue ADC will at 48k beat the
shit out of cheap converter at 192k. Now comes even
worse isue and that is, your weakest link in recording
chanell today is not ADC/DAC , its the speakers. There
are only few comercially availabel speakers that can
produce anything above 20k without serious intermodulation
artefacts in audio band. Not to mention there is no speaker with
even nice impulse response.

And finaly nowdays u have two options for recording :
to analog tape or to ADC. That impulse respose on that garph,
that says analog beneath, thats NOT analog tape. Thats
more something like ultrafast ultralinear discrete
opamp at unity gain.
Impulse response of analogue tape would be worse one
on the graph. Thing is analog tape is CRAP from
technical standpoint , it f**k things up , specially
above 10k. But thing is, lot of us LIKE how tape
f**k things up.
So its not that high performance digital is much flawed
its that we like huge flaws of analogue tape.
If by miracle digital was around here at 1910. and
tape was introduced in 1982. everybody would hate tape.

Snook , you made your point loud and clear , but deaf
ears wont hear it if u make it any louder by posting
something you are not sure about what it means and what
will make people who are new to all this (most of us here
me thinks) just more confused.
Marketing bullshit and lack of genuine knowledge on
topic of music making are making people confused enough.
Lets not make things worse.

Now this was load of bullshit on one pile
urosh

[urosh]

Sorry people had to do it
urosh

[nibbzious]

I love my UAD-1. Sure PSP MasterComp might sound better than Fairchild or HydraTone might sound better than Cambridge... but ask yourself this... how much CPU does a single instance use on your computer? And these plugins are recent developments... For a long time UAD had no true competition in the Native world

For the money it's totally worth it because you get a bunch of great sounding plug-ins at insignificant CPU hits. I don't see the problem here? If you guys don't like UAD for whatever reason, you aren't going to change our minds because we are entirely satisfied with our purchase

If UAD releases a new PCI card, which they most probably will in due time, then I will most likely buy it. Everything I buy for my computer I know will become outdated. When I made my UAD purchase I understood that in the future I would have to replace my UAD card. And I'm very happy

And even then.. some of you haven't even heard these plugs

[kritikon]

that graph and all was posted because I'm fed up with the overhyping of old tech...please read my complete statment(s) here:

I don't understand where you get the idea of old tech being hyped. That's not what UAD plugins are about at all. People use the cards simply because it is the only way of getting those plugins, and some of them really do sound mighty fine. I haven't heard all of them, but some of the dynamics plugins I've heard are fantastic. I've also heard the EMT plate too - sorry, but there is no native plugin that sounds like that - unless you have a whole load of impulses and even then it makes sense to use the card plugin for various reasons.

I assume (only theory, because I don't personally know the developers) that they choose the UAD platform simply because they are safe. Some of those plugins would be cracked and on open season within a day if they were released as native plugins. And some of those plugins are very very good. They don't want them cracked so you either don't use them or buy the card.

And anyway, what does old tech have to do with it? The point is the excellent coding of the plugins themselves. I agree there are some choice plugins for native such as Kjaerhus, Princeton etc but the choice of really top quality plugins is small. Any old compressor does not sound the same as a good one. That is why people like me hanker after a UAD. I still use some h/w for those purposes and take it as read from me and others that know the decent h/w, most native plugins don't compete at that level. The really good ones do though...and guess what...the really good ones are on platforms like UAD.

I don't give a toss about what format UAD is on - they could release it on 128bit supercrystal wafers that hold 5000GB on a 1mm crumb of synthetic hokey-pokery and still all I'd care about is what the plugins actually sound like. I think you've missed the point of UAD plugins...the card is not hyped at all. But the plugins are, and for good reason to my ears (and I don't even own one yet). The card is simply a dongle for the plugins as far as I can see it.

Sure I'd rather get those plugins native...that ain't going to happen in the near future though. Old tech is irelevant - they simply work as native plugins would within your host. And as long as any future tech is involved - they can do anything they want as long as they continue to work in host such as Cubase.


What you're pissed off about is that it's more expensive to get into the UAD platform - you have to buy the dongle 1st. So am I...I'd rather not have to, but I feel it's a good investment for quality plugins. And $149 for a plugin...that's not unreasonable...GCO1 goes for $125 or thereabouts doesn't it? Princeton goes for $200. The actual UAD plugins are no horrific rip-off at all.

Quite frankly I only care about the sound. I'll use h/w where it sounds better, and I'll use native s/w where it sounds as good or better. Where the sound comes from is irrelevant as long as it works in my host.

And if/when PCI goes down the toilet, you can bet UAD will release some format that allows them to dongle the plugins with newer PCs. Just that they haven't needed to yet. No point getting all miffed about a dongle. It's just market realities in action.

[putte]

I hate to be an ass, but that f**king pic of Putte is driving me nuts. Bloody throw that thing away. For the sake of all good

.. huh??

[soulata]

that graph and all was posted because I'm fed up with the overhyping of old tech...please read my complete statment(s) here:

I don't understand where you get the idea of old tech being hyped. That's not what UAD plugins are about at all. People use the cards simply because it is the only way of getting those plugins, and some of them really do sound mighty fine. I haven't heard all of them, but some of the dynamics plugins I've heard are fantastic. I've also heard the EMT plate too - sorry, but there is no native plugin that sounds like that - unless you have a whole load of impulses and even then it makes sense to use the card plugin for various reasons.

I assume (only theory, because I don't personally know the developers) that they choose the UAD platform simply because they are safe. Some of those plugins would be cracked and on open season within a day if they were released as native plugins. And some of those plugins are very very good. They don't want them cracked so you either don't use them or buy the card.

And anyway, what does old tech have to do with it? The point is the excellent coding of the plugins themselves. I agree there are some choice plugins for native such as Kjaerhus, Princeton etc but the choice of really top quality plugins is small. Any old compressor does not sound the same as a good one. That is why people like me hanker after a UAD. I still use some h/w for those purposes and take it as read from me and others that know the decent h/w, most native plugins don't compete at that level. The really good ones do though...and guess what...the really good ones are on platforms like UAD.

I don't give a toss about what format UAD is on - they could release it on 128bit supercrystal wafers that hold 5000GB on a 1mm crumb of synthetic hokey-pokery and still all I'd care about is what the plugins actually sound like. I think you've missed the point of UAD plugins...the card is not hyped at all. But the plugins are, and for good reason to my ears (and I don't even own one yet). The card is simply a dongle for the plugins as far as I can see it.

Sure I'd rather get those plugins native...that ain't going to happen in the near future though. Old tech is irelevant - they simply work as native plugins would within your host. And as long as any future tech is involved - they can do anything they want as long as they continue to work in host such as Cubase.


What you're pissed off about is that it's more expensive to get into the UAD platform - you have to buy the dongle 1st. So am I...I'd rather not have to, but I feel it's a good investment for quality plugins. And $149 for a plugin...that's not unreasonable...GCO1 goes for $125 or thereabouts doesn't it? Princeton goes for $200. The actual UAD plugins are no horrific rip-off at all.

Quite frankly I only care about the sound. I'll use h/w where it sounds better, and I'll use native s/w where it sounds as good or better. Where the sound comes from is irrelevant as long as it works in my host.

And if/when PCI goes down the toilet, you can bet UAD will release some format that allows them to dongle the plugins with newer PCs. Just that they haven't needed to yet. No point getting all miffed about a dongle. It's just market realities in action.

ditto


and with UA being a nice company I bet they'd give discount for UAD1 owners if they released a new card (like TC did).

I have UAD1 and like it very much. So much that I'll buy the flexi-pak as soon as it comes out.

Which doesn't mean I don't use native plugins, it just means I have more power left to use them.

k

[billybk1]

Word has it that they are working on 64bit UAD-1 drivers, for WinXP64/Vista.

[SJ_Digriz]

UAD-1 wasn't an "old" technology when I bought my first one 5ish years ago. But, UA continues to be a great company to do business with. They have given me ZERO reason to shop elsewhere for similar technology, be it native or another dsp solution. I considered card two to be an absolute bargain.

I know that when they release a plug it will be TOP quality at a reasonable price. The fact that I might be able to get a native equivalent from another company is irrelevant. When plugs they release are not of interest to me, I don't buy them (what a concept). But, I happily use a bucketload of EX-1s and Cambridges without chewing up my native CPU. This leaves me with yummy processing headroom for Zeta+(s), B4(s) and various other performance based plugin-s.

snooky, you keep making this about the reletive technology. There is so much more to this than fourier transforms. By your argument we should all pitch our computers out the window and go back to multi-track tape and external gear until we get 200khz resolution.

[snooky]

a bit drastic maybe, but what I mean is this:

don't for a second believe that you have a sound anywhere near the sound of superexpensive outboard with matched components and years of know-how behind it just because the plugins run on a DSP card. it's the same kind of technology that native plugins use. THAT'S my main gripe with the hype about dsp cards.

they won't turn your SB-live into a fully fledged multi-million dollar recording studio.

[AndrewSimon]

a bit drastic maybe, but what I mean is this:

don't for a second believe that you have a sound anywhere near the sound of superexpensive outboard with matched components and years of know-how behind it just because the plugins run on a DSP card. it's the same kind of technology that native plugins use. THAT'S my main gripe with the hype about dsp cards.

they won't turn your SB-live into a fully fledged multi-million dollar recording studio.

There might be some truth in what you say but this is not always the case.
After all, an outboard FX, is a software running on a DSP card..... isn't it?
And UA brings the "years of know how" to the table.
So it might not sound exactly like a $5000 outboard box but it comes as close to it as possible considering you only paid $150 for it.

By the way I doubt any UAD owner uses SB-live.

[SJ_Digriz]

a bit drastic maybe, but what I mean is this:

don't for a second believe that you have a sound anywhere near the sound of superexpensive outboard with matched components and years of know-how behind it just because the plugins run on a DSP card. it's the same kind of technology that native plugins use. THAT'S my main gripe with the hype about dsp cards.

they won't turn your SB-live into a fully fledged multi-million dollar recording studio.

ah, now I can buy into this part. I've been flamed before for pointing out that none of the plugs, native or otherwise, sound like or "as good as" the high end outboard gear. I personally think modern releases even by the big name producers sound like shit. They literally hurt my ears. This is even with jazz and classical recordings. I get to hear analog track versions of tracking sessions (yes, recorded to multi-track) before they go into the digital world and get destroyed.

The odd thing is that even when recorded digital if the signal is treated analog until master the results are subjectively better.

But, back to the point. I wouldn't trade working in my DAW setup. And the UAD-1 is a great value in that domain. Most of the plugs DO have a distinct sound compared to their native counterparts. As with all things audio if that sound is good or bad is up to the listener. Most of us who use the UAD-1 work in the DAW domain and so find the plugs exceptional for the purpose. That is the only way to compare apples to apples.

[SJ_Digriz]

After all, an outboard FX, is a software running on a DSP card..... isn't it?

err...no...the UAD is all about analog setups not DSP.

By the way I doubt any UAD owner uses SB-live.

One would think, but you would be surprised.

[putte]

.. snooky, it really would help (in this) if you would give the uad-1 a listen before you judge them. it´s all about sound in this discussion, at least it should be me thinks.
we´re talking plugins processing sound, and the UAD-1 plugs are loved by many cause of the results they can give.
once you have the card itself the additional plugs you can buy are just 149$, and thats a bargain.

putte