T2 Linux

[Def Dave]

Def Dave - cool to know, and I'm glad to be wrong.

this idea f***ing rocks!

linux needs a chance.

personally I don't really use tracktion 2 anymore. I focused on FL Studio and I think I am going to convert to Ardour for recording.

David

[chico.co.uk]

Much though i'm a linux fan, does anyone actually buy software on linux? I know I don't, and i use loads of stuff ... mainly security distros ... how d'you persuade people to pay for linux software?

[Lunch Money]

At least it's a kind of software that people often have dedicated computers for, like video editing. If somebody is using their computer ONLY as a DAW in the first place, they might be willing to pay for software that will run efficiently on Linux. The operating system ends up just being a backdrop for the sequencer anyhow, and should be transparent.

Greg

[IIRs]

how d'you persuade people to pay for linux software?

Same way you persuade them to pay for any software: make it good, and judge the price right.

Personally I would be happier to pay for software that worked with an open-source OS that didn't require Bill Gate's permission to use..

[chico.co.uk]

how d'you persuade people to pay for linux software?

Same way you persuade them to pay for any software: make it good, and judge the price right.

Personally I would be happier to pay for software that worked with an open-source OS that didn't require Bill Gate's permission to use..

So ... how much linux software have you bought up till now?

Me neither

I don't think there's a culture of buying software on linux. Part of the attraction to many people is the fact that you can get so much for the cost of the bandwidth required to download it. It's why peer to peer exploded too, people got excited about getting stuff "for free". Except for the obvious legal/moral differences between the two concepts.

This is all devil's advocate stuff you understand, as I'd like to see a linux port too

[Father Ham]

Most likely, but only because Mackie would need to have a support infrastructure in place for supporting linux before a release could be made. Porting Tracktion to Linux isn't really a technical challenge (Jules has already done 80% of the work), but it is far from a lightweight customer service challenge.

The actual GUI would be identical, so most information as to how to use Tracktion to accomplish things would be the same for both platforms.

As far as it simply not working, due to incompatibilities with their custom distribution, Mackie can focus on one setup, and include a disclaimer that the Linux port is unsupported. People can test the demo on their setup, and if it doesn't work, they don't buy it, or they use forums like this to figure out how to tweak their setup to make it work.

Most of the support we receive is from this forum anyways. The only thing Mackie needs to do is help when something out of our control doesn't work, like problems with license activation, or bugs in the software.

When bugs are found for the Linux distribution they develop for, they should be fixed. When bugs are found for other custom setups, they should be fixed only if it makes sense, otherwise they don't have any obligation. But in practice, it would work for most every setup because all distros can use the same ALSA/Jack/Kernel.

[Father Ham]

Much though i'm a linux fan, does anyone actually buy software on linux? I know I don't, and i use loads of stuff ... mainly security distros ... how d'you persuade people to pay for linux software?

Yes, my money has gone to Red Hat Enterprise Linux, and Flash Communication Server. This costs a heck of a lot more than Tracktion, and the FCS is only supported for Red Hat. In practice, people installed it fine on many other distributions without Macromedia's support.

The reason why most people don't buy software for Linux is because there is none for sale. This is partly due to the fact that most apps are coded for "Free Software" purposes and not for an actual business attempting to solve a problem.

I've recently purchased Adobe Photoshop CS2. I have The GIMP installed, and it cost me nothing. So why would I pay for something else that requires me to reboot to use it? It is because The GIMP sucks. It could be good, but since there is no business motivation behind it, there is no reason for them to focus on making it good.

If I were to buy The GIMP project, and pay people to do GUI research and redesign the entire interface from scratch with user-friendliness in mind... then I am confident that many people would be willing to pay as much as they pay for Adobe Photoshop for this Linux application.

Tracktion is already user-friendly, and it has money behind it so it has a reason to stay good. I've already paid money to Mackie for the license to use it, and if there were a Linux port available, I still would've paid the money to use it.

All I care about is using the tools to build things. I can do that in any OS, but Linux has plenty of advantages over Windows for audio. For instance, long before Windows 64 I was on Gentoo 64. Even today, I don't see any Echo Audio drivers for Windows 64bit, but my card works just fine under Linux.

For latency, with things like realtime preemption built into the kernel, you can tweak things to help get the best performance out of your system. This means being able to strip things out and focussing in on audio in a way that can't be done in Windows.

The market is there. But right now there is no one driving it. There are technologies on the horizon that can make audio in Linux great, but they are slow to get to without an application that is as unique and desired as Tracktion.

With a sudden interest sparked by such huge news as a commercial audio release for Linux, more developers would fill-in the gaps around it, providing a rich landscape of quality software to compliment the Linux audio experience.

[IIRs]

So ... how much linux software have you bought up till now?

None. I haven't bought any Mac software either, what does that prove?

If Ext was ported to Linux tomorrow, it would probably finally give me a reason to buy it!

[james0tucson]

use..

So ... how much linux software have you bought up till now?
[/quote]

I bought Applixware, an Opera license, Myth II, JBuilder, Crossover Office, VMWare, and Mathematica, all for personal and/or academic use.

For business use I've paid for custom software, bought RH Enterprise licenses, and negotiated a contract with Microsoft (yes, really) for a site-wide version of the frontpage server extensions for Apache on Linux, for a big web hosting provider. Also, I've bought linux versions of Oracle -- 30 developer seats and licenses for thousands of runtime connections; dealing with Oracle is quite an experience.

I've also purchased a substantial amount of software for Sun, DEC, HP, and IBM unix systems.

I believe your point was, it's a foregone conclusion that "nobody" buys Linux software, and I am compelled to throw in a counter example, because I've bought Linux software for personal use, and spend hundreds of thousands on Linux software on behalf of my company.

I realize that doesn't mean anybody will buy your audio application, but I don't want to let you hold your assumption that there's no market at all for Linux software.

[valley]

So ... how much linux software have you bought up till now?

Do you really want me to list it all?

(hint - I'm looking at my works PC which is running Linux as the primary OS, and WinXP in a virtual session; a quick count suggests I've spent around 10 times as much on Linux software as I have on Windows software on this PC).

[valley]

james got there first...

[valley]

As far as it simply not working, due to incompatibilities with their custom distribution, Mackie can focus on one setup, and include a disclaimer that the Linux port is unsupported. People can test the demo on their setup, and if it doesn't work, they don't buy it, or they use forums like this to figure out how to tweak their setup to make it work.

IMHO - that just wont fly. People really don't expect to be told "well we support OSX and >WinNT, but we only sell to Linux users."

I worked for an ISP once that tried that line with Mac users (this was back around System7 when users often had wierd proprietary PPP stacks. We explained it clearly when they signed up, but once push come to shove and they were on the unhappier end of a support call, the "we don't provide OS level support for Macs" line just didn't cut it.

There are only two solutions to prviding support for an open OS:

1) you specify a distro. This is fine, but it makes you somewhat beholden to a 3rd party distro outfit for audio/USB driver bug fixes, as you have implcitly recommended said distributionm as a working, stable, solution to your customers.

2) you provide a custom distro yourself. This frees you from being tied to the whims of Novell or RedHat, but then obliges you to provide installation support as the distribution becomes effectively part of your product.

[james0tucson]

The actual GUI would be identical, so most information as to how to use Tracktion to accomplish things would be the same for both platforms.

A bigger problem will be all the people with sound devices that have no driver support whatsoever, where the reason for no support is that the manufacturer is adamant about preventing it.

I can understand why someone might not want to go there. The audio driver config is complicated enough for the devices where there is explicit ALSA support developed by the manufacturer.

[valley]

I can understand why someone might not want to go there. The audio driver config is complicated enough for the devices where there is explicit ALSA support developed by the manufacturer.

I never did get wireless working on my laptop under linux. Intel had a bunch of 'community' drivers and support docs related to my 802.11 chipset, but after five days I lost faith and installed a network jack in my living room.

[fake]

Nice! Glad to see some more linux threads.

Have you tried any vst's with it yet? If so how did they perform?


I have now gone linux DeMuDi with vst support but unfortunatley can't ditch windows completley. I have done a lot of tracks still unfinished and to finish them I would need the same software.

Unless....I try running magix under wine.

The problem with running vst's in linux is that you need to use the Steinberg VST SDK header files which can be downloaded for free but only under license conditions. Which means it is not freely redistributable.

TBH, I think that the first dev who does a native "jackified" port would be on to an early winner, but its the vst bit that has the problem.

A happy linux user!

fake