Amplitube 2 Jimi Hendrix RELEASED this month!!!

[Squids]

On the latency issue... like I said, the best test would be to try it. My understanding is that overall it is the lowest possible latency that can be gotten with the technology today. I've seen the pedal but not tried it myself. So I can't even tell you from personal experience myself yet. I only know from asking out of curiousity about it myself. However, I (being somewhat picky but not over the top) found even just a Firewire 410 running at a buffer of 256 on a 3 gig PC to be fine for me. I am not Eddie Van Halen though doing lightning fast licks either.

Fritz, I am publicly visible playing music all over the place if you are curious. www.sampletank.com has videos of me demonstrating. If you want hear music I've worked on then you can check out www.kevingilbert.com (although some of Kevin's lyrics are offensive so beware). Also you can check out a lot of the bands listed in our company bio under my name. I either played, produced or programmed sounds for those artists. http://www.sonicreality.com/company.php I also write a lot of music too but the only stuff that has been published is TV scoring work I've done. But, ironically, one of the reasons why I set out to create sounds and plug-ins with Sonic Reality and IK was to give people like myself and anyone else the tools to produce their own pop records (and all other styles too) without needing major label backing (which is increasingly harder and harder to get for artist development). So, I am writing and producing a lot of material now that I am hoping many people will get to hear soon... and yes, I am using AmpliTube 2 on that of course! Hence, my excitement.

To the Bearded fella... well, it hasn't messed up my system whatsoever. But, one of these days we'll get you comfortable with it I suppose. I just don't want you to miss out on some good stuff that I think you'll like is all. But, we have a lot of options and always will anyway. Not everything we do is done the same way.

I really do like the comment made about how copy protection is not a punishment or something "out to get you". That is exactly right. It is plainly and simply protection on a company's investment. If it is cracked then the companies reconsider what to do next. But, it is absolutely quantified what the difference is! More sales is more sales. Okay, you can't compare what it would be without, sure. However, you cannot argue with success. This I would think would be obvious though.

It bums me out to see people say that are pissed that a company feels they have to use the best protection they can find for their software. I mean, if I know the person is a good customer of ours. If it is someone I don't know that for all we know could be one who just likes to use pirated software and boos copy protection for that reason then... sorry! But, I remember Morelia being a good customer of ours and of course I want him to be happy as much as we can. In general, I really hope that those people understand where we are coming from and that we are just doing our best to stay strong in our ability to produce products with better and better features for the money. But, ultimately it is what it is (just like Cubase, Logic and ProTools are offered how they are) and people can make a choice that reflects their own needs and considerations. If we are speculating about the entire industry then it is true that I have access to a lot more statistics and have a better idea of what is the reality of buying it or not overall. Each person here can know what they'd do and what maybe some other anonymous forum posters may say as well. But, that doesn't reflect what the majority of users think and do. If anything, when I see someone post negatively on what they think people will do I take it as someone who would like to affect that happening by posting the suggestion of it. I can't say I appreciate that much but then who would that is working hard to make a positive impact in the MI business (or any business)?

[A3ntar]

Hmm...Let me see if I understand this correctly. Lets' say that your ASIO drivers report 5ms Latency. Assuming that the 5ms is 5ms latency In and 5ms latency out. Since when you will record the guitar, the accompagnment tracks are being played from the host PC, meaning only OUT. So, when the sound of the tracks arrive to your ears ( through heaphones) is approx. 5ms. When you hear the sound, you will start playing your guitar part.

So, right now, you are 5ms behind the actual track. You play the guitar, and then there is 5ms delay for the Sound to arrive to your host, and another 5ms for the sound to arrive to your ears. So since the moment you strum the guitar, in total there is 10ms for you to hear the sound you made. But, the 5ms OUT also played 5ms of the track along with the guitar, so in reality, your only 5ms behind the track itself in all time, not 10ms.

Track OUT--5ms-->Ears---Play Guitar---5ms IN-->Host--->5ms OUT---Track+Guitar

Code: Select all

Track = ReferenceTime + 5ms  ---+
                                |--> Delta of 5ms
Guitar= ReferenceTime + 10ms ---+

So if the host compensate these 5MS, then you should be perfectly aligned with the track.

This of course doensn't consider human latency as a factor ( human ear -> brain processing -> muscle ), and assumes that your reference point for your guitar playing is the track itself, not the guitar sound produced by your host. Although for 5ms delta, it don't think it should make a huge difference.

I don't know if this is clear to you guys, but it seems logical to me. I might be all wrong of course

[Lunch Money]

That sounds about right to me. My main thing is with the (human ear -> brain processing -> muscle). I really do believe that since your reference point is the track itself and not the guitar, that 5ms simply cannot impact a person's timing.

If you ARE playing lightning-fast Steve Vai solos, your fingers are largely on autopilot anyhow, having practiced your sweeps, taps, and alternating picking to the point that you're playing your runs without considering each and every note.

I dunno, Dimitar (as an example) is a pretty impressive guitarist, and he uses a combination of hardware and software (AT1). I've never heard him complain that AT1 or his soundcard are causing his timing to go funny. Heck, for all I know, he could be already playing with 5ms delay (or 4), but he may also be playing with 8 or 10! Someone would have to ask him.

Greg

[Beardedone]

To the Bearded fella... well, it hasn't messed up my system whatsoever. But, one of these days we'll get you comfortable with it I suppose. I just don't want you to miss out on some good stuff that I think you'll like is all. But, we have a lot of options and always will anyway. Not everything we do is done the same way.

That's cool Dave. Fear of instability is a big one for me. When I see soem first had evidence (i.e. witness a few friend's systems that are successfully working with the ikey) then maybe I will go down that.

You do offer a diversity of options so I am quite sanguine about this in general. And thanks for pursuing this discussion.

Cheers,
Gordon (still unshaven)

[DotNoir]

I'm really waiting forward for this plugin. We already have Cubase SX3 running at our studio with the USB dongle and we have had zero problems with that one. Though I am in princible against copy protection. I just don't really see the point of copy protection, but that's just my opinion, and there is no use starting to argue about it.

[bduffy]

I'm really waiting forward for this plugin. We already have Cubase SX3 running at our studio with the USB dongle and we have had zero problems with that one. Though I am in princible against copy protection. I just don't really see the point of copy protection, but that's just my opinion, and there is no use starting to argue about it.

Don't worry: someone will!

I cannot believe this thread is at 49 pages! Wow.

[Cosmic Bandito]

I used to run my guitar through an audiophile USB and it wasn't the latency that bothered me as much as the instability. It was prone to dropouts and glitches when the CPU is pushed because of bandwith limitations of USB and how Windows XP handles IRQ's for USB. These are inherent in USB and can't completely be eliminated by drivers. It will depend on what the AT2 pedalboard is relying on USB to do that will determine how 'sturdy' this setup will be. I would rather run my guitar to my PCI card input than have any audio stream run through a USB port. Then again if the USB is just for sending messages from the pedal to the software, It'll probably suffice.

On another note, I tried AT2 at AES and I thought it was pretty cool - not the "be all end all" but felt & sounded good. Thought it was going to be gimmicky but changed my opinion after playing with it. Of course the excitement of the moment can affect judgement but I heard GR & GTR earlier that day and wasn't impressed.

[A3ntar]

Thanks for your feedback Bandito. When you say "I thought it was pretty cool", would you mind yourself using it in production? Did the emulation sound "real" to you?

Thanks.

[Sascha Franck]

Cosmic Bandito, I'm allready using USB audio interfaces with great succes, completely crackle- and hasslefree, it's just that latency is an issue for me...

[AndrewSimon]

Cosmic Bandito, I'm allready using USB audio interfaces with great succes, completely crackle- and hasslefree, it's just that latency is an issue for me...

If you want super low latency use a PCI device not USB.
PCI will always have higher priority then USB or Firewire.
It's just the way PC's are designed.
I run at 1.4ms with Audiophile 2496 (no crackles)

[Sascha Franck]

See Andrew, I *do* have some PCI soundcards (yes, even more than one), I know about their advances as well - I just thought it was a nice idea for both AT2 and GR2 to come with dedicated controllers and interfaces. Plug in USB cable, start laptop, ready to go!

Maybe it'd be a good idea to offer extra PCMCIA card models in case these thingies are becoming successful.

[Lunch Money]

Holy heck. I wish.

I was getting 4ms fairly comfortably, but I jumped it right up to 512 samples (8ms) which I still find easy to work with and provides me a greater sense of stability and security. I didn't have real problems at 4ms, but the placebo effect of the 512 samples is making me feel much better about continued reliability.

Greg

[Mikem]

How many guitarists are concerned about what is in the ads at all? How many would let it affect what gear they buy? .000001%?

Hm,

that would make roughly 300 million guitarists then. Interesting math.

Sure, some of you claim that you won't get it because of the ad's "sleezy" nature but if THAT is the reason you choose another competing product instead then it shows where your priorities are (ie. not in the sound and features).

Right. At least you got THAT right. Cool.

Ok, next up, the latency discussion... splitting hairs? There is no such thing as zero latency in software (or real life as well). 3-5ms is undetectable. I venture to say that most people don't have a problem with 6-10ms either... or more.

You'll know when you play it if it feels right to you or not and THAT is the most important spec I think that supercedes what is written.

The test if it feels right should be with a rhythm section playing with you. This way you can feel much easier the annoying delay that the latency produces.
2ms feels good to me. With 5ms it starts to get hard to groove. 8ms is already inacceptable for me. Doesn't feel right anymore. This is only the latency that my DAW produces. I'm already 3 feet away from my speakers which is another ... But you can do the math for yourself. Most important is the feel, not the math to prove it.

But, its all subjective. Some people can say they think AT1 sounds bad but then the Stones will use it (when they can use ANYTHING they want). But, then someone could even say the Stones don't sound good...

Oh yeah! The Stones were cool around the time when I was born. For the last 30 years I wondered many times why their guitars sounded so sick.

and then, of course, someone can say the same thing about YOUR music as well (although when you are in a band that plays sold out concerts for 5 decades please let me know ).

Yeah, being sold out for 5 decades makes their guitar sound way better. Cool.

Of course, my main feeling about the importance of the plug-in is not in who uses it (even though it does say something)

Yes, it says who is using it. Nothing more. But yes, it's important for the kids that the Stones use it.

Dear Squids,

my respect for your opinion and what you have to say about the stuff you're advertising decreased dramatically. Not only because you don't get the facts right (see above with the number of guitar players out there and your unrealistic "opinion" about latency) but even more your uncool way of reacting to the minority of people who won't buy Amplitube 2 because of the poor ads.
Most of the time I overlooked your organ monkey style and was amused by it sometimes. But this goes too far for me. Way to far.
I won't buy AT2, because of the poor ads and because of your poor reaction to this issue.


Regards, FRitz

I don't know Fritz at all, but I do know Squids (or at least have dealt with him via forums, email, and phone conversations over the past three years), and I *really* didn't like this response he received from Fritz.

I can see from the posts that followed that Squids' response was measured, when he could have deservedly gone off on Fritz. Well, I guess that's where I come in...

Squids' enthusiasm is infectious (in the nicest sense of the word). I've taken him at his word and ordered AT1 (so I can get the free AT2 upgrade). I'm grateful he takes an interest in these forums, and sometimes I wonder why he still bothers, when people seem quick to jump on him half the time. Yes, he has an agenda, but it's not HIDDEN. He's always careful to qualify his statements with his affiliations.

But he's also a musician, and a darned good one. We share a lot of musical tastes and influences, he and I. So I *trust* him as a musician when he says AT2 is the real deal (or closer than probably any software has gotten to date). I also "get it"--he loves hardware, but he also loves the convenience, flexibility, and economy of software substitutes, as do most of us here.

A bit of perspective: Squids would never say this, but he has been a HUGE help in getting vintage instruments available to computer musicians on a budget. He's not the only one doing it, but certainly one of the best and most passionate. He's a pioneer, even. The story of the evolution of VST instruments (especially patched-based "ROMplers") could not be told without a Squids chapter.

[begin rant]

Now, about the AT2 girl: Squids has no need to defend an ad decision made by IK, since AT2 isn't his product and IK isn't his company. But I understand his point--it's par for the course with guitar ads. Do we "throw out the baby with the bathwater" when a company's ad doesn't jibe with our own personal standards?

Fritz, I found the ad to be tasteless, too. I just moved on to the pages that contained the information. From a values standpoint, I'm not the target audience of the ad, and I GET THAT. So I don't get all worked up about it, and instead focus on the product at hand. A cheap stunt from IK? To some, yes. A deal breaker on AT2 for me? Heavens, NO!

And I found NO FAULT with Squids' reaction to your offense. It's because you two are apparently from different planets on such issues--so why take it personally? Why not show some tolerance yourself? You'll wield a lot more influence if you keep your cool, rather than coming off all self-righteous.

It's like going to see your favorite band in concert and having the singer say "FCUK" from the stage. What do you do? Denounce them and all they stand for, burn their CDs, make them your least favorite band, suddenly? Or do you realize that they come from a different background, different culture maybe, and that you shouldn't take it personally? Yeah, maybe the singer is insensitive and doesn't care about you being offended. So skip the next tour. But does it suddenly make them a bad band with bad music? HECK, NO. You'd consume ZERO worthwhile entertainment if it had to come from completely clean sources.

[This next part is a general rant, but it applies to the situation at hand.]

A lot of Americans are way too "boycott" happy these days, and it's annoying. "Boycott France", "Boycott CBS", "Boycott Disney", etc. It's self-righteous and obnoxious.

It's not about religion--heck, I'm probably more actively "religious" than most "boycotters" are. It's about tolerance. It's about accepting the fact that not everyone has your values, so cut them some friggin' slack. So either quietly boycott as a personal decision, or don't boycott but write a polite letter to the company letting them know something bothered you, so maybe they'll at least think twice next time in light of their varied clientele. In other words, don't be offended where no offense is meant. Life's too short.

To stand up and say "I'm offended! I'm taking my ball and going home!" just makes the others think you're a prude or a buzzkill, if you will. It doesn't create understanding or tolerance on either side.

[end rant]

So back on topic--I look forward to AT2 with low latency on my kickass machine. And I look forward to meeting Squids in person some day--he rocks!

[Hink]

wow I wonder what the other 9 posts were like ...again though someone who assumes when someone doesn't like such advertising techniques it's because they are offended,.... not always.
(the following is opinion only)
It's cheesy, face it but there's no imagination to it at all.

It's really narrowminded, and really panders to one type of customer, it's the oldest trick in the book. I'm an not offended, nor would I not buy something because of it and as I have stated several times it just brings up more questions...I'm not offended, I just think it's cheesy, I'm tired of dealing with cheesy companies...

[Hink]

btw fwiw I had a 65 year old lady who bought a jackson from one store I worked at...and it was for her..advertising should apeeal as large an audience there is...surely those ads are not aimed at females, but aren't females about 50% of potential customers?