Can someone explain the PLParaEQ controls to me?

[Frippertronix]

fritzman,

I'm not even sure the plug was working when I tweaked the attenuation and didn't hear an effect (I've experienced buggy behaviour with this plug in T2). I may have also had the peak too narrow to hear much change. This is also an extremely transparent digital equalizer, so I'm finding boosts to be less noticeable than on any other EQ I own.

Reading your last post again I see you indicated Q was resonance. So that's established. Do you see a slope or cutoff control? If not, how are those parameters manipulated for HPF and LPF on this plug, as far as you can tell?

[blaster78]

they also make this beauty

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1975.html

which aparently is "A sophisticated physics and hearing physiology model computes the corrections needed at every instant and in every Bark band so that the listener regains "Golden Ear" abilities"

interesting company

steve.

[Frippertronix]

Okay, I've now recollected what some of my other issues were when I tried to figure out the GUI on this. In addition to not seeing a clear way to manipulate the HPF and LPF cutoff and slope, I don't understand the gain control on this. Obviously if you start at -20 db and go up from there you are increasing gain, but what represents an apmplitude cut vs. and amplitude boost in this configuration?

All EQ's I've used before had clear adjustments for cut and boost, in other words, +db and -db adjustments with zero, or no cut/no gain in the middle. This starts at -20 and goes to zero at its maximum, so neutral position (no cut, no gain) is not clear on this gain slider. On a control like this is there a convention about where the neutral (no positive or negative peak) position is (i.e. is it represented by, for example, -10 db)?

On a bit more of a superficial niggle, why is the attenuation control given the label "attenuation", but then it defualts to its lowest possible volume setting (-20 db)? Shouldn't it default to its highest possible setting and go down from there if it is supposed to be an "attenuation" control? To attenuate means to cut something, so it seems illogical to default it to its most extreme cut level rather than defaulting it to its least extreme level and letting the user adjust it down from there, which would conform to the dictionary definition of the word "attenuate".

All in all, unless someone can enlighten me about how this kind of configuration conforms to some kind of industry standard I haven't encountered yet (since I've spent no time in pro studios), I'm going to say the control layout for this plug is really rather odd.

[Frippertronix]

they also make this beauty

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1975.html

which aparently is "A sophisticated physics and hearing physiology model computes the corrections needed at every instant and in every Bark band so that the listener regains "Golden Ear" abilities"

interesting company

steve.

I can't speak to that one but I'm really only bitching about the esoteric (at least to my admittedly limited world) control scheme on the free EQ. I love the sound (when it works since I have found it to be a bit buggy). I think the phase warped sound is as good as any other plugin EQ I've tried and the phase linear sound is very, very transparent and very useful as a neutral tool to sculpt the timbre of instruments. I'd love to buy the full version, but it is way out of my price range.

[Frippertronix]

gain does nothing for a LPF or HPF. Q is resonance. Tweaking gain didn't have much effect? Well if you think that 20 dB gain has little effect ...


Best wishes, FRitz

Is it common for a resonance control on a LPF or HPF to be labeled "Q"? I can't remember seeing that. Resonance is an amplitude control, the frequency of which is goverened by a cutoff control. Q is a frequency bandwidth conrol. Why would a resonance control be called "Q"?

[fritzman]

Hey Fripper,

OK, I thought the rest of the controls are obvious but hey. I'll explain it to you as this eq is really worth it as it is very very good. And free.

Attenuation: Just a gain control. Basically you can forget it. You can also forget the Clip LED as there is no clipping inside this plugin. For sure.

Freq: This is the filter frequency. For a LPF or HPF this is the CUTOFF slider. For a peak or bell eq or BPF or band reject filter this is the middle frequency. For the shelves it is the corner frequency.

Fine: A fine adjustment slider for the frequency.

Q: This slider is for the steepness of the curve for the hi and lo shelve eqs.
For the peak eqs, the BPF and the band reject filter it's for the broadness of the eq area. To have only a narrow frequency area affected you raise the Q.
For the LPF and HPF it's simply the resonance slider.

Gain: This affects the shelve eqs and the peak eqs. With it you boost or cut the frequency band you dialed in with Freq, Q and the eq type.
For the LPF, HPF, BPF and band reject filter it has no effect.

I hope this is clear now, if not feel free to ask again. No problem.


Best wishes, FRitz

Only just saw your last posting. I hope this is basically cleared with the above!? Personally I don't care if it's called Q or Res or whatever. As long as I know what it does.

[bmanic]

EDIT: duh.. never mind, fritzman basically described it already well. I'd just like to add that it is worth checking this link which shows how the filters behave at different Q settings: http://refinedaudiometrics.com/images/R ... ilters.pdf

At initialisation the plugin is bugging. All controls are at their minimum. Just use CTRL+left mouse button click on the controls and they go to their default values (attenuation is still at -20 which i find weird, just crank it up to 0). Then select whatever filter you want.

The high/low shelves are most neutral sounding around 0.4 to 0.7 Q and then start exhibiting that weird boost/dip thingy like the pulteq when it's past 1.0 Q.

In general it works like any other basic EQ, the only thing confusing people is the bug at plugin start up and that weird attenuation control (which is really only needed when you boost a lot). Think about the attenuation as a simple output volume slider. Simple as that.

Cheers!
bManic

[Frippertronix]

fritzman---thanks for going into more specifics. I'm not trying to make arguments, but I think my points about the confusing nature of their controls are sensible. I think my experiments have been spotty so far because I'm not sure the plug has even been working all the time in my host.

Your rundown makes sense, but you left out where the slope control is for the LPF and HPF. I deduced that freq=cutoff for those, which is perfectly reasonable. Again, calling resonance "Q" is inconsistent, but, hey, whatever. I'll have to go back and see if I agree that it actually seems to have that effect on LPF and HPF.

[Frippertronix]

At initialisation the plugin is bugging. All controls are at their minimum. Just use CTRL+left mouse button click on the controls and they go to their default values (attenuation is still at -20 which i find weird, just crank it up to 0). Then select whatever filter you want.

The high/low shelves are most neutral sounding around 0.4 to 0.7 Q and then start exhibiting that weird boost/dip thingy like the pulteq when it's past 1.0 Q.

In general it works like any other basic EQ, the only thing confusing people is the bug at plugin start up and that weird attenuation control (which is really only needed when you boost a lot). Think about the attenuation as a simple output volume slider. Simple as that.

Cheers!
bManic

Okay, now we're getting somewhere, but how do you establish boost vs. cut on the gain control if it starts at zero and only goes down?

[fritzman]

Hey Dave,

there's no slope control for the LPF and HPF. Just one type of both.
Do yourself a favour: Tune the Attenuation control to the top (zero dB) and forget it. It does nothing to the sound. It's a volume control. Volume equally for all frequencies at the same time. Nothing frequency dependant here. For the sound stuff there's the Gain slider.


Best wishes, FRitz

[Frippertronix]

Hey Dave,

there's no slope control for the LPF and HPF. Just one type of both.
Do yourself a favour: Tune the Attenuation control to the top (zero dB) and forget it. It does nothing to the sound. It's a volume control. Volume equally for all frequencies at the same time. Nothing frequency dependant here. For the sound stuff there's the Gain slider.


Best wishes, FRitz

Have you established where the no + or - peak setting is on the gain slider, since the top is zero?

Again, I have to spend more time with this effect since it seemed to be coming on sometimes and not others for me and the first night I used it I think I also was wondering if it was either a hoax or so badly implemented as to be useless.

I'm convinced now that it is very useful indeed, so I'll do what I can to master the controls. If there is only one gain slope for the LPF and HPF I'd certainly be interested to know what it is. If its very shallow then that might explain why tweaking it didn't seem to produce very obvious results---then again it could have been bugs getting in the way again.

All this comes down to one issue---no manual. The release notes they give with the free download really just consist of more (probably deserved) hype for their technology, but with a GUI like this one, I'd sure like to have a manual where they at least explain in their own words how the contol setup is supposed to work.

[bmanic]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere, but how do you establish boost vs. cut on the gain control if it starts at zero and only goes down?

Eh? Are you confusing the attenuation slider with the gain slider? leave the attenuation at 0, period. Don't ever touch it. Now, the real EQ gain control is the one that is most to the right, called, eh, gain!

The slider right of the Q slider is what boosts/cuts the EQ. When it's in the middle (CTRL click it) it is 0. From there it can either boost or cut +20 or -20.

It really is very simple.. I don't understand the confusion unless you've been using the attenuation slider (the left most slider.. leave it at max, 0).

Cheers!
bManic

[Frippertronix]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere, but how do you establish boost vs. cut on the gain control if it starts at zero and only goes down?

Eh? Are you confusing the attenuation slider with the gain slider? leave the attenuation at 0, period. Don't ever touch it. Now, the real EQ gain control is the one that is most to the right, called, eh, gain!

The slider right of the Q slider is what boosts/cuts the EQ. When it's in the middle (CTRL click it) it is 0. From there it can either boost or cut +20 or -20.

It really is very simple.. I don't understand the confusion unless you've been using the attenuation slider (the left most slider.. leave it at max, 0).

Cheers!
bManic

Oh, my bad then if the gain goes above zero. For some reason I thought it was laid out like the attenuation control. Not sure why. I'm at work now so I'll have to check when I get home. I think I was so perturbed by the lack of slope and specific cutoff control for the HPF and LPF (I use HPF constantly for bass doctoring) and probably aggravated by the buggy inconsistency of the performance of the plug, I may have not looked at things closely enough. Then again, maybe the version I DL'ed had a screwed up GUI. I got it on the first day. I think I'll DL today's version just in case. Thinking back, though, I don't remember a zero indentation being anywhere on the gain slider. Thanks for the clarification, though.

Dave

[Frippertronix]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere, but how do you establish boost vs. cut on the gain control if it starts at zero and only goes down?

leave the attenuation at 0, period. Don't ever touch it. I don't understand the confusion unless you've been using the attenuation slider (the left most slider.. leave it at max, 0).

Cheers!
bManic

Why never use the attenuation control? Why do you feel it has no purpose?

[dbmcclain]

The LPF and HPF in PLParEQ1 are both 2-pole traditional filters. But when you go into phase-linear mode, remember that these filters act twice in succession. So that means (A) steeper skirts, and (B) a shifting of the -3 dB corner frequency.

Two passes through a LPF or HPF is not the same as one pass through a higher order filter.

You can find all the filter equations used in PLParEQ1 in Robert Bristow-Johnson's dandly little Cookbook for EQ Filters. Just Google for it.

The 10-band product is an entire level of sohpistication higher than this PLParEQ1, but the computational engine is the same in both cases. This is not a sawn off product, and you can stack as many copies as you can accommodate on your computer. Highest Quality levels typically require that you bounce your tracks through the filter since most computers choke on realtime.

- DM