Crackling noises

[CrownRoyal]

I mentioned that I was having audio crackling and popping sounds coming from my Receptor in another thread but I thought I'd start a new one. I'm getting a sinking feeling about this. I thought I'd stay out of the forums and start recording... well, that's when I started getting the noise, again. The CPU is not over loading nor is there clipping in an channel. I have M42 on strip one, Wusikstation on two and Absynth 3 on three. All are set to MIDI channel one to play in unison. No effects are inserted. When I play them in unison they crackle and pop. Only the keyboard is hooked to the Receptor (and my monitors). The CPU is under 40% when I play a chord in unison. The meters are very low maybe -15 db? Hard to say, no gauges on the channel strips. Grrr...

So, I did a little experimenting. I recorded a single MIDI note and repeated a dozen times or so. I recorded the output of each channel into ProTools, one at a time with that MIDI sequence. I listened to each track, solo'ed. No crackling. I un-muted two at a time, three different ways, no crackling. I listened to them all together (meaning three tracks un-muted). No crackling.

Then I recorded another track with all three instruments in unison. It sounds like an old recordplayer. Crackle, crackle, crackle... I looked at the CPU meter and saw nothing over 50% peak (1.4b... oh, and please don't say it's the beta because this was doing it in version 1.3). It's not my interface because I can hear it with the phones plugged into the Receptor. I took the S/PDIF connection off and recorded analog. There were no tempo changes, either. I could send you the session if you'd like. It's pretty obvious.

Ugh! I feel sick.... honeymoon's over.

I'll call tomorrow for help.

[DanTimis]

One possibility is that there is a strange interraction between these three plug-ins. Have you tried each instrument alone, two instruments at a time, then all three? If you use three other instruments, do you get the same crackling? Are you looking at the GUI of any of these plug-ins?

[CrownRoyal]

One possibility is that there is a strange interraction between these three plug-ins. Have you tried each instrument alone, two instruments at a time, then all three? If you use three other instruments, do you get the same crackling? Are you looking at the GUI of any of these plug-ins?

Yes, I've tried them alone. That's how I recorded them. I thought I explained my method for testing.

I've heard the crackling before and posted that a few days ago. I wasn't using the GUI's of the plug-ins in my above test. Seems to me it's some kind of bottle neck in the audio throughput. If I picked three plug-ins that don't like each other for my first time for laying down some tracks.... boy, I better play the lotto!

I've got to get some sleep... I'm exhausted and I think I'm going to puke. I'll call tomorrow.

[Rick@MuseResearch]

CrownRoyal I believe it was you I spoke to on the phone about this today. On Receptor there will be a crackle while in the Edit View of Guitar Rig but never the mix view.

[tjodoin]

I'm also experiencing this. CPU and levels aren't clipping but I'm getting clicks with a multi comprised of 4Front Piano, Line In, and Absynth 3. Absynth 3 also suffers from regular hanging notes but that's a known issue acknowledged by NI on their forum. On an aside, are there any updates on when the latest version of Absynth might be available?

[CrownRoyal]

CrownRoyal I believe it was you I spoke to on the phone about this today. On Receptor there will be a crackle while in the Edit View of Guitar Rig but never the mix view.

Hi Rick,

Yes, your tips where very helpful. I also asked for Tim's advise and I'm going to experiment, tonight. Maybe it would help if there was a known bug catagory on here? That way Receptor users can look, first... or at least pointed to that list.

The customer support from Muse is awesome. I have no doubt that their hearts (and minds) are fully behind this product. I'm learning what I can do and can't. I assume too much, sometimes. I get frustrated that I've managed to hit bugs with my first recording session. As I said earlier, I was so pleased with the unit that I took it straight to the stage and it was flawless.
Since then I managed to goof up.

Okay, enough said... user error coupled with ignorance to known bugs.

I'll play more, tonight.

[CrownRoyal]

I'm also experiencing this. CPU and levels aren't clipping but I'm getting clicks with a multi comprised of 4Front Piano, Line In, and Absynth 3. Absynth 3 also suffers from regular hanging notes but that's a known issue acknowledged by NI on their forum. On an aside, are there any updates on when the latest version of Absynth might be available?

That's strange about Absynth. I've been delighted that I've had no stuck keys with it on my Receptor. Absynth was practically useless as a plug-in for me because of those stuck notes ruining my renders. NI tech support blows. I've never buy another thing from them. Vote with your pocketbook.

Post your multi and I'll try it, too. Sounds like we have similar issues.

Thanks.

[CrownRoyal]

Further testing...

I talked to Rick today and he suggested some fixes for the crackling issues I had. I also got a couple of suggestions from other users.

- Guitar Rig: Don't use the GUI while playing/recording. That fixes the crackling completely (Rick told me this). So, I've applied this to other tracks, also. Guitar Rig sounds GREAT! And it hardly moves the CPU meter.

- M42 is a resource hog. I closely watched the CPU meter and it does spike the meter. As a test, I loaded it on my laptop (Dell M60 2GHz 1G RAM) and played it in Live 4.14 with my Mbox 2. I just used the laptop keyboard. It actually ran better on the laptop, so I moved the other VSTs over and checked the unison playing. No crackling. The CPU meter was up near 85% but the sound was great. I sat there for a while thinking that over. After a few WTFs and called a friend over to help.

- I went back to my Receptor and started listening closer to it. I notice a "tick" on nearly every key press. I recorded a quick lead (run up the keyboard) and then looked at the recorded wav VERY close and you can see the little spike of the "tick" sound. I did this with Bass-Station because it hardly uses any CPU. I changed patches and still could hear that tick. I thought it might be the USB connection, so I disconnected it and ran a MIDI cable over to it. No change. Tick. Tick.... almost "valve-like". Or "relay-like". Tick...

- I took a couple of Advils. I'm staring at my little studio.... I've got $hit everywhere... what the heck have I done? Why did I buy this? Oh yeah, to offload my DAW. I looked at my laptop and it ran the patches I tried to record without breaking up. Huh? My Mac is just sitting here laughing at me.

- So I'm thinking, "Self, you can return this to Sweetwater or wait for UniWire to see if that fixes it". Waiting for UniWire will put me out of the 30 return policy. I'm out a couple hundred bucks for RAM that I added, cross-grades and new software.

- On the plus side, I've learned a ton about Windows plug-ins. You have SO much to choose from! Amazing stuff that you can't even buy on Macs. I'm thinking that I should just sell my Mac and get myself a badass PC and just freeze tracks.

-As for performing, well, I can go back to using Reason and the Korg. It's bullet-proof and the drunks I play for think I'm Keith Emerson... so what's wrong with that?

[DanTimis]

- I went back to my Receptor and started listening closer to it. I notice a "tick" on nearly every key press. I recorded a quick lead (run up the keyboard) and then looked at the recorded wav VERY close and you can see the little spike of the "tick" sound. I did this with Bass-Station because it hardly uses any CPU. I changed patches and still could hear that tick. I thought it might be the USB connection, so I disconnected it and ran a MIDI cable over to it. No change. Tick. Tick.... almost "valve-like". Or "relay-like". Tick...

Hey. You are on to something here. Receptor does have a relay that makes "tick" -actually "click" - if you listen closely. The reason for the relay is that if Receptor loses power or a plug-in crashes or hangs, Receptor will still pass audio between it's audio inputs and it's audio outputs. This is a requirement of the broadcasting industry, so Receptor can be used in a radio station for compression, eq, etc.

If your Receptor if off, you can send audio to the audio inputs and it will come out of the audio outputs, unchanged. As Receptor boots, the audio will still pass through Receptor. When the Receptor software is finally up, you hear "click" and the audio stops passing throuh, unless of course you have a mixer settings that lets it pass through.

You could try an experiment. Listen closely to your Receptor, meaning your ear is close to the box, which is I suppose what you were doing anyway. Tripple click on the POWER button. As soon as you do that the replay should make "click" as the inputs get pass through to the outputs. Then, Receptor will restart its software, and after a few seconds you should hear "click" again as the pass thru from ins to outs is closed. Is that the sound you were talking about?

As long as the Receptor software is up and the CPU is not overloading like crazy, you should never hear the "click" of the relay. I've seen a Receptor audio card with intermitent MIDI, with audio ins or outs not working, but I've never seen or heard of a card with the relay acting up. You did not hit the jackpot with the rare plug-in combination, but you may have hit it with a relay that has a mind of its own.

It could also be that this relay starts acting up only after the Receptor has been on for a while. That would explain why it was fine at your performance, than it was not fine later that night, then fine again the next day.

If it is the relay, you need a new audio card. I don't know what the procedure is, but you may have to send your Receptor to us. Rick can give you the details.

I'm really sorry for your troubles.

[Watto]

Nice post, Dan!

[CrownRoyal]

It could also be that this relay starts acting up only after the Receptor has been on for a while. That would explain why it was fine at your performance, than it was not fine later that night, then fine again the next day.

If it is the relay, you need a new audio card. I don't know what the procedure is, but you may have to send your Receptor to us. Rick can give you the details.

I'm really sorry for your troubles.

Dan,

Hey, I know you guys care and, as always, I appreciate your help. The support is great.

As for the clicking relay, I didn't mean the relay inside the Receptor. I meant I was listening to the output very closely. I could hear a "tick" very faintly on almost every note I played. I changed to a couple of different plugins and I could hear that noise. The worse part is that I could record it and then see it. I thought that maybe it's always been there on my Mac but never heard it. I tested several plug-ins on my Mac but never heard that "tick" sound.

I was thinking about the whole deal this morning and I'm going to request something before I decide on whether or not to return the unit. I'll send Rick an email.

I'm torn over this thing. Guitar Rig sounds fantastic. Rick was right about making some HUGE sounds with layering a couple Guitar rigs together and then using an expression pedal to bring effects in and out. I've also had some great fun with using Absynth as an effect for guitar. I can play guitar but I'm not all that great. I'm a better keyboarist.

I might be struggling with a buggy sound card. Heck, I don't know and that's why I've been posting. Maybe someone will say, "Hey, I heard the same thing, try this!" and all will be good. I'm in no way dis'ing Muse or it's people. I trust you guys. I can tell by talking to you guys that you care. I can hear it in your voices.

Thanks again for the support.

[DanTimis]

Have you tried recording from the S/PDIF?

[Bryan@MuseResearch]

This is definitely not normal behavior. However, I'm concerned that you are using plug-ins that aren't officially supported on Receptor, so I'd like to ask you to repeat the tests with plug-ins that are included standard with Receptor, for example, ForeFront piano, bass, or B4 and Pro53.

Does the click happen with these? In otherwords does it happen on all plug-ins? If so, it could be a bad audio card, or it could also be an audio clocking problem.

What are your sample rate, buffer and most importantly, sync source settings? You aren't by any chance locking to an external SPDIF stream are you?

You can send me a private message if you want so we can move things along a little faster; I'm anxious to get this resolved...

Bryan Lanser
bryan@museresearch.com

[CrownRoyal]

Have you tried recording from the S/PDIF?

Not yet. I wanted to rule out a clocking issue for that very reason. I actually asked that question to Rick in an email message so I'd correctly setup the system. He gave me some pointers and they worked except that "ticking" sound.

[CrownRoyal]

This is definitely not normal behavior. However, I'm concerned that you are using plug-ins that aren't officially supported on Receptor, so I'd like to ask you to repeat the tests with plug-ins that are included standard with Receptor, for example, ForeFront piano, bass, or B4 and Pro53.

Does the click happen with these? In otherwords does it happen on all plug-ins? If so, it could be a bad audio card, or it could also be an audio clocking problem.

What are your sample rate, buffer and most importantly, sync source settings? You aren't by any chance locking to an external SPDIF stream are you?

You can send me a private message if you want so we can move things along a little faster; I'm anxious to get this resolved...

Bryan Lanser
bryan@museresearch.com

I used Bass-Station as a starting point. I noticed it on several other plug-ins, too. Vertigo, z3ta+ and ePiano (for example). I played with it for HOURS. I used Bass-station because it used the lowest CPU of any plug-in that I tried. On the CPU scale, it never went over 1. Bass-Station and V-Station have nice sounds and I got them free with my son's X25. He's on a Mac and can't use them. I purposely didn't want a percussive sound source, so I didn't choose 4Front piano for testing.

My sample rate: 44.1kHz, Internal, 128, MIDI clock external to DAW, z-load off. Using analog out to monitors then switching to my Mbox 2 to record. Monitoring via Mbox 2. When I performed last Saturday, I sync'd to a 828MkII via ADAT. I can hear the tick sound with my headphones plugged in, only. No other connection except the keyboard.

I removed Native Instruments stuff that I didn't have a license for. I do have a license for impOSCar, Minimosta, Veritgo, Phantom, z3ta+. Those are supported plugs. I can test with those.

I've CC'd you to your email.