Greetings all. I am new to Tracktion, using 1.6.0.1 on a XP Professional laptop. I have recorded a simple bass line that I intend to loop, but whenever I delete a segment from it (actually, chopping off a bit at the end), a "pop" is introduced in the process. Is there some setting that could be causing this? I tried fading it out, but the fade is not saved when I attempt to loop it. What am I missing?
Thanks for any help.
Noise introduced during editing (deletion)
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Any time a "chop" is made, it is very very common for there to be an audible "click", because the odds are slim that you'll make the snip at a zero amplitude spot.
Use the little 'fade' handles to make a fade at the beginning AND the end of the clip, and your click should go away. Unless, of course, the click is in a part of the recorded loop that isn't faded in or out.
Greg
Use the little 'fade' handles to make a fade at the beginning AND the end of the clip, and your click should go away. Unless, of course, the click is in a part of the recorded loop that isn't faded in or out.
Greg
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 31 Oct, 2005
OK, I understand what you're saying, and thanks. However I can't help but think that this very common problem must have another workaround somehow. I've worked a bit with Cakewalk 6.0 long ago (obviously, due to the version) and I never remember having this problem. Cuts were cut, and never was there any extraneous noise. Anyway, thanks for the tip.
There is one problem with using the Loop feature, and that is it retains the fade in at the beginning of the clip, but not at the end, which is exactly where it is needed. In other words, the click is gone when the clip is played alone, but when looped it's back and right in the middle of the phrase, even after I save...am I missing something there too?
Thanks again!
Dan
There is one problem with using the Loop feature, and that is it retains the fade in at the beginning of the clip, but not at the end, which is exactly where it is needed. In other words, the click is gone when the clip is played alone, but when looped it's back and right in the middle of the phrase, even after I save...am I missing something there too?
Thanks again!
Dan
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Hey Dan,
I'm not sure about Cakewalk 6.0, but I assure you that the clicks you hear (assuming they're the ones created by cutting at non-zero-crossings) aren't 'extraneous noise' but are rather exact reproductions of what you've done to your audio.
I know that some programs (energyXT used to do this, and I'm sure others do) that automatically added a micro-fade at 'cut' points. There's a certain demographic that don't WANT this to be automatic and unchangeable. Better the minor hassle of doing it manually than concede any power to the host.
Someone made a feature request recently that I quite liked, and which makes perfect sense-- the ability to toggle this 'auto-mini-fade' behaviour on and off, which would save a certain amount of work.
I don't understand what you mean about the fade being lost. It makes me wonder if we're talking about the same thing.
With too-aggressive latency settings on your soundcard, you will also get 'clicks and pops' in your audio playback. If you're getting a click in the MIDDLE of a phrase, and not at the point where you had cut the file, then it's not the loop feature but your soundcard settings.
Greg
I'm not sure about Cakewalk 6.0, but I assure you that the clicks you hear (assuming they're the ones created by cutting at non-zero-crossings) aren't 'extraneous noise' but are rather exact reproductions of what you've done to your audio.
I know that some programs (energyXT used to do this, and I'm sure others do) that automatically added a micro-fade at 'cut' points. There's a certain demographic that don't WANT this to be automatic and unchangeable. Better the minor hassle of doing it manually than concede any power to the host.
Someone made a feature request recently that I quite liked, and which makes perfect sense-- the ability to toggle this 'auto-mini-fade' behaviour on and off, which would save a certain amount of work.
I don't understand what you mean about the fade being lost. It makes me wonder if we're talking about the same thing.
With too-aggressive latency settings on your soundcard, you will also get 'clicks and pops' in your audio playback. If you're getting a click in the MIDDLE of a phrase, and not at the point where you had cut the file, then it's not the loop feature but your soundcard settings.Greg
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 31 Oct, 2005
Greg,
Thanks for the tips. You are correct that the noise is introduced by cutting at non-zero amplitude spot, and I'm fine with doing a "micro fade" at that point. However, I do still have a problem with creating the loop. Perhaps if I illustrate (I hope this looks right):
Original clip, 6+ bars in length: ------------
Cut clip, exactly 4 bars: --------|
The vertical line represents the "click". When I add just a touch of fade right at the end, it goes away: --------
However, when I then hit the "Loop" button and select any number of repeats, the click "comes back" and is repeated at the end of every 4 bars, just like it was never faded at all:
--------|--------|--------|--------| etc.
Does this make sense? Changing the latency does introduce pops and clicks all through the playback, but this is a specific sound in the exact same place every time. No matter what I have the latency set at when the cut is made, or when the fade is created, the click is there. Anything else I could try? I could simply copy the faded clip and paste it over and over, but that's what the Loop button is for, right?
Thanks for your assistance.
Dan
Thanks for the tips. You are correct that the noise is introduced by cutting at non-zero amplitude spot, and I'm fine with doing a "micro fade" at that point. However, I do still have a problem with creating the loop. Perhaps if I illustrate (I hope this looks right):
Original clip, 6+ bars in length: ------------
Cut clip, exactly 4 bars: --------|
The vertical line represents the "click". When I add just a touch of fade right at the end, it goes away: --------
However, when I then hit the "Loop" button and select any number of repeats, the click "comes back" and is repeated at the end of every 4 bars, just like it was never faded at all:
--------|--------|--------|--------| etc.
Does this make sense? Changing the latency does introduce pops and clicks all through the playback, but this is a specific sound in the exact same place every time. No matter what I have the latency set at when the cut is made, or when the fade is created, the click is there. Anything else I could try? I could simply copy the faded clip and paste it over and over, but that's what the Loop button is for, right?
Thanks for your assistance.
Dan
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Yes, it makes sense, but you need to put a fade at both ends. You won't hear most 'clicks' until you loops, so there's probably a click at the beginning too that you simply don't notice until you loop.
If you're REALLY keen, you can do a clever bit of trickery by stacking a duplicate copy of your 1-bar loop right next to it, dragging a bit of overlap, cross-fade, render, then cut back to size.
If that didn't make sense or you can't figure it out on your own, maybe someone else can give you a more detailed explanation-- I never use the trick myself, but I know people around here do. I personally just go for the mini-fade at the beginning AND at the end.
NOW, here's something important:
IF the spots where you've cut your loop down to size (on both ends!) have loud sounds, a teeny fade won't eliminate it. You have to make sure there's no sonic information going on there that's not meant to be part of the loop.
Greg
You won't hear most 'clicks' until you loops, so there's probably a click at the beginning too that you simply don't notice until you loop.If you're REALLY keen, you can do a clever bit of trickery by stacking a duplicate copy of your 1-bar loop right next to it, dragging a bit of overlap, cross-fade, render, then cut back to size.
If that didn't make sense or you can't figure it out on your own, maybe someone else can give you a more detailed explanation-- I never use the trick myself, but I know people around here do. I personally just go for the mini-fade at the beginning AND at the end.
NOW, here's something important:
IF the spots where you've cut your loop down to size (on both ends!) have loud sounds, a teeny fade won't eliminate it. You have to make sure there's no sonic information going on there that's not meant to be part of the loop.
Greg
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 31 Oct, 2005
OK, I've got it figured out. Actually when you said "render" above, it gave me the idea to fade the click and export the clip. Then I imported it to track 2 and the click was gone. Maybe that's what you meant in your description above, or maybe not, but either way I now have a click-free loop! Thanks again for your assistance.
Dan
Dan
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
No worries, mate. I wouldn't expect you'd have to render, though, so that's kind of annoying. Let me try it on my own and see what I can come up with. It might be a bug worth reporting to Mackie. Sorry I didn't try it on my own to begin with. More accurately, I DID try it, but I got lucky and my loop looped seamlessly so I didn't pursue it further. <chuckle>
Greg
Sorry I didn't try it on my own to begin with. More accurately, I DID try it, but I got lucky and my loop looped seamlessly so I didn't pursue it further. <chuckle>Greg
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Well heck, there it is. Sorry man, I'm an idiot, giving advice without even trying it first. Fade handles aren't maintained for each 'looped' clip. I use CTRL+C and then CTRL+V for "looping" rather than the loop function, so I had never noticed.
Cheers for the thread, and sorry it took so long to sort out. If I had just done my job I would have told you, "Huh, it's not working the way one would think" right from the beginning. Glad that rendering worked out!
Greg
Cheers for the thread, and sorry it took so long to sort out. If I had just done my job I would have told you, "Huh, it's not working the way one would think" right from the beginning. Glad that rendering worked out!
Greg
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- KVRist
- 179 posts since 15 Oct, 2003 from Norway
I try to avoid the loop-function myself (though I find it anoying not being available for midi-clips...).
When you record a couple of bars and decide to loop it, T always records a couple of ms before and after the clip. These can be used for cross-fading with it's twins, and T has an auto-crossfade button which works great.
When you record a couple of bars and decide to loop it, T always records a couple of ms before and after the clip. These can be used for cross-fading with it's twins, and T has an auto-crossfade button which works great.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I still see them. They're just at the beginning of the very first clip and the very last clip.
Greg
Greg
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 31 Oct, 2005
So I'm not crazy after all!! Great. Thanks for the discussion. As a new user it has helped me really dig in and try to figure out what was going on. Perhaps the "lost fade when looping" bug is fixed in T2?
Dan
Dan
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
No, it's still there in T2; however, I hesitate to call it a "bug". A few people I've mentioned it to have showed me how it can also be a useful feature.
Greg
Greg
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- KVRist
- 44 posts since 18 Jul, 2005
Also, some editors (like Adobe Audition) have a "snap to zero crossing" setting that makes every cut a clean pop-free cut. On stereo tracks, zero crossing on both tracks are usually few and far apart, so that kind of feature is better for mono tracks.
Ken J Kelly