Sample whatever you want!

[Stupid American Pig]

Another example, DJ Quik. Hes been around for a while but had never really quite broke out in a big way. He sampled some Indian national song, the song was huge, he got sued and lost big time, BUT guess whos songs are everywhere on US radio now...DJ Quik.

So ya, he shoulda cleared it but he probably wasnt able to. Seems like it worked out for him.

I think some of you are missing my point though.

I must have missed teh revolution when DJ Quik got a bunch of airplay.



This brings up the obvious question here- Why do you want to sample other peoples music anyway? I mean sure it was fun when I was 19 to grab abunch of funk loops and stack them on top of each other. But that isnt really making music. I for one am glad to see artists get their asses sued off for sampling. why should vanilla Ice get millions of bucks for using queens music? Its like taking a book and scratching out the authors name, writing my name on top of it, and selling it as my own.

[P.T.]

Ther is no reason or point in sueing unles you are making money or are causing the original artist/company to lose money. Just the fact of your using a sample and posting your music on the web isn't worth sueing over.

Have you not noticed that the RIAA are suing ordinary people left right and centre for sharing MP3's on the grounds that they're causing 'the original artist/company to lose money' ?

Thats not a hypothesis.

Well, I did say..."or causing the artist/company to lose money." Or don't you think rampant file sharing of entire songs and albums is causing them to lose money?

[soulkraka]

So your premise about 'oh such and such is under the radar' is flawed.

Y'know; pointing out that if a group of copyright holders are suing people who redistribute their copyrighted works without permission but make no profit from it, then telling a different group of people that they'll probably be perfectly safe if they redistribute part of the copyrighted works of the same set of copyright holders without permission as long as they dont make a significant enough profit from it, is an unduly optimistic 'hypothesis'.

but its a hypothesis grounded in reality.

Go to your local "underground" record store. Listen to as many records you can stomach. If your record collection is even 1/10 as deep as mine then you will recognize a shedload of samples.

Which of these artists are being sued?

I'll say it again...I dont think people even read my initial post in its entirety. I get the feeling people are just reacting on an emotional level to my topic title.

Allow me to quote myself:

3. If you are involved in musical projects that are destined to sell loads of copies then you wouldnt be discussing this issue on KVR.
You would either (a) be well versed in copyright law already, (b) be discussing this issue with a lawyer, or (c) have already told your record company what samples you have used and they are working on clearing them or possibly "recreating" them a'la Dr Dre or The Go! Team.

[nuffink]

Anyway, back in the current century, check out the rather wonderful History of Sampling.

[JamminFool]

so if you can get away with something, that makes it ok?

neither i nor he said that.

actions speak louder than words.

[clueless]

Its like taking a book and scratching out the authors name, writing my name on top of it, and selling it as my own.

I'm sure the Chi-lites must be furious with the downturn in their record sales due to Beyonce...

[whyterabbyt]

Well, I did say..."or causing the artist/company to lose money." Or don't you think rampant file sharing of entire songs and albums is causing them to lose money?

There's evidence that would seem to support the direct opposite hypothesis in fact. That is, it makes them money.

However that's not really my point. Its not so long ago people were saying "hey they'd only ever sue the people who make pirate CDs, not the people who just download stuff". The boundaries on what they are willing to do, and who they are willing to take action against, are changing. Its very foolish to ignore that and tell people 'hey its okay because we're not on their radar'.

[clueless]

so if you can get away with something, that makes it ok?

neither i nor he said that.

actions speak louder than words.

a stitch in time saves nine

look before you leap

it's an ill wind that blows nobody good

the apple never falls far from the tree

the ocelot flies backwards at dawn

and so on.

[soulkraka]

This brings up the obvious question here- Why do you want to sample other peoples music anyway? I mean sure it was fun when I was 19 to grab abunch of funk loops and stack them on top of each other. But that isnt really making music. I for one am glad to see artists get their asses sued off for sampling. why should vanilla Ice get millions of bucks for using queens music? Its like taking a book and scratching out the authors name, writing my name on top of it, and selling it as my own.

Thats a very one dimensional view of sampling dontcha think?

A typical sampling session for usually goes like this:

sample drum hits from various soul/funk records, a kick from here, a snare from there etc.

Make a beat. The same way a guy using stylus or BFD would...sequencing samples.

heavily manipulate some samples in Ableton. For example, taking the reverb decay from a guitar strum and making a pad sound from it...that kinda thing.

Writing my own melody/perc/bassline etc over the top.

should I feel that Im less of a musician because I like to explore and manipulate found sounds?

To me what I, and many other musicians, do is more akin to taking bits and pieces from various paintings and rearranging them into a new whole.

[deleted]

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[whyterabbyt]

but its a hypothesis grounded in reality.

YOu're treating your perception as though it is an unchanging reality. It isnt.

Which of these artists are being sued?

For the last time, I am not talking about what is or is not happening right now. However you are assuming that the current state of things will continue into perpetuity. It almost certainly will not.

I'll say it again...I dont think people even read my initial post in its entirety. I get the feeling people are just reacting on an emotional level to my topic title.

You can say what you like. You're actually just reacting on an emotional level to being contradicted by somsone who doesnt think you have some sort of supernatural insight into the future actions of the copyright holders in question.
Whereas I have no emotional involvement in the topic at all. I do, however, have enough information to believe that the current situation, ie the level of attention the copyright holders pay to these things, is already changing.

Allow me to quote myself:

3. If you are involved in musical projects that are destined to sell loads of copies then you wouldnt be discussing this issue on KVR.
You would either (a) be well versed in copyright law already, (b) be discussing this issue with a lawyer, or (c) have already told your record company what samples you have used and they are working on clearing them or possibly "recreating" them a'la Dr Dre or The Go! Team.

Thanks for repeating your fallacious assertions. However their repetition does not aid your fortune-telling ability.

[Spe3D]

One of the biggest form of copyright theft is the SuperDJ using others work and calling it their own compilation.

No credits given to the original artists – but hey! That’s basically what this thread is about – one person justifying copying others without their knowledge or consent or even any respect for their fellow artists.

Its pretty shallow some of the stuff in this thread

[whyterabbyt]

Thats a very one dimensional view of sampling dontcha think?

He said 'sample someone's music' not 'sample from someone's music' That may have mean he was specifically excluding the 'sampling a single note' situation you focussed on to the exclusivity of all other sampling usage.

[herodotus]

One of the biggest form of copyright theft is the SuperDJ using others work and calling it their own compilation.

No credits given to the original artists – but hey! That’s basically what this thread is about – one person justifying copying others without their knowledge or consent or even any respect for their fellow artists.

Its pretty shallow some of the stuff in this thread

Yes, for gods sake, give the poor drummers of the world some income!!

[Stupid American Pig]

This brings up the obvious question here- Why do you want to sample other peoples music anyway? I mean sure it was fun when I was 19 to grab abunch of funk loops and stack them on top of each other. But that isnt really making music. I for one am glad to see artists get their asses sued off for sampling. why should vanilla Ice get millions of bucks for using queens music? Its like taking a book and scratching out the authors name, writing my name on top of it, and selling it as my own.

Thats a very one dimensional view of sampling dontcha think?

A typical sampling session for usually goes like this:

sample drum hits from various soul/funk records, a kick from here, a snare from there etc.

Make a beat. The same way a guy using stylus or BFD would...sequencing samples.

heavily manipulate some samples in Ableton. For example, taking the reverb decay from a guitar strum and making a pad sound from it...that kinda thing.

Writing my own melody/perc/bassline etc over the top.

should I feel that Im less of a musician because I like to explore and manipulate found sounds?

To me what I, and many other musicians, do is more akin to taking bits and pieces from various paintings and rearranging them into a new whole.

The flaw in yer logic is this- you mentioned how DJ quik got his ass sued off. He didnt grab a kick here or a snare there. He stole the the whole friggen song.(or at least a good bit of it) Its not the samples that I have a problem with, its the theft of other peoples work. when you BUY BFD you are PAYING for the samples. If you buy an album you are not paying for the use of its content. You are buying it to compensate the artist for *his* work.

I know sampling can be very creative and its a tool like any other. I pointed out Vanilla Ice in my example because that is just downright lazyness and people wanting to get paid for shit they didnt do. If you can sample something and have it not be stealing a theme, melody or anything recognizable thats fine.( I guess, but not the best practice IMO)

My main point is I dislike when people rely on samples for the bulk of their music. I am much more interested to hear how someone can take their own ideas and express them than how well someone can arrange and sample loops.