What most software companies understand, that is not widely understood by the general public, is that the consequences of warez are not necessarily so obvious. There is the aspect that people become widely accustomed to using your software, whether they buy it now or not, they will either eventually buy it if it is good, or stop using it altogether.
Part of the reason that Cubase is so popular is that it was one of the most popular warez apps out there. So you get thousands of kids (who wouldn't have bought it anyway) who get into using it, and eventually get hooked on home recording, and eventually put their expendable income towards software, hardware, etc.
When I was a broke kid looking for a hobby, i stumbled across warez sites, and admit that it was kind of addictive. Now I own thousands of dollars worth of software. It's the same concept as a crack dealer who gives away that first dose for free...
One simple way to fight Piracy / Warez - everybody helps !
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- KVRAF
- 2028 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from New York, N.Y.
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- Banned
- Topic Starter
- 5089 posts since 12 Jun, 2001 from Wusik Dot Com
Hehehe, you never know, talking about the devil... my cousin just asked me to be his friend over Orkut 
Wk
Wk
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- KVRian
- 773 posts since 23 Apr, 2002 from audio/hamburg/germany/earth/space/unkown!
but hey! You can stop using the warez version und everethings is as it was before, but if you used the bought version, you often stuck with it, whether you use it or not, so companys may not want to lose profits on thisa kind of "demos" toojplanet wrote:There is the aspect that people become widely accustomed to using your software, whether they buy it now or not, they will either eventually buy it if it is good, or stop using it altogether.
.i'm just kidding, but this shows the madness they do to honest customers.
In germany we have a saying, maybe someone knows the translation "der ehrliche ist immer der dumme". I'm afraid this will come more and more true in the future, because you can hide your crimes behing a mountain of laws.
Another thing, that drives me mad on regular demo versions: how can you be shure that the left out features (which were removed due to the demo version) work properly in the full version? Isn't it possible to integrate a "software is free to test and play with, but you have to pay if it helps you making money"? kind of policy into the full software, so you can demo and learn the full software?
I'll make an example. I really like bremmers audio studio, but since the free demo is limited to a few tracks, i can not be shure it acts stable if you load more plug ins in it than i'm allowed i this demo.
Another example: Energy XT. I could imagine that the files you save may be broken on reload, a file with a saved modular setup may have errrors? (O.K. i must admit, i'm pretty shure thatr this peace of reasonable priced High Quality software does it right, but..)
D3CK
Last edited by dasdeck on Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- 2028 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from New York, N.Y.
Speaking of warez, wasn't Google accused of stealing Orkut code?WilliamK wrote:Hehehe, you never know, talking about the devil... my cousin just asked me to be his friend over Orkut
Wk
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
I dunno about the whole warez thing, it's not a simple issue.
My two cents:
I spent a lot of money on software before I even understood what it did & got stiffed in some cases.
I ended up later with a lot of 'warez' I didn't even use.
I found some software that I liked, I thought was fairly priced & had copy protection I could live with, I also found some incredible freebies (thanks to KVR mainly).
I got rid of my warez, sold or gave away software I didn't use & bought the aforementioned software.
Mine is not an isolated case, I had a few friends who also used warez - thing is once they actually started really making music they all eventually (some were more resistant than others) bought what they used & are all happier & more productive for it.
I know others who bought stuff from day one (they all had larger disposable incomes).
That is purely a personal story, don't know how much wider relevance it's got, it's probably part of the reason why I never get into having a dig at people for being a suspected 'crack-head', I figure if they're serious they'll eventually buy the real thing.
Anaybody who makes money from their art/craft & still uses warez I don't understand though - that's just wrong.
Anybody who makes money from selling cd's with warez on etc. - they're wrong to the power of wrong.
I won't ever buy/use software with invasive or intrusive copy protection, I feel that's also wrong & misguided/misjudged on the developers part.
Anyone who has ever used (even if you haven't used) warez knows how easy it is to find this stuff, & the illegitimate users have less hassle/problems than the legitimate ones in many cases - remember rip rowans reviews on waves & pace?
Flame away if you want cos' I used to be an 'evil' warez user, I don't care, I found what I like & paid for it once I actually started using it.
People collect warez, seriously they collect it so that they can show their friends, but in my experience they rarely actually use it - & I don't just associate with warez-kiddies I know & have known pros.
Case in point, knew a guy who had cracked logic 5.5 platinum for p.c, he originally had logic gold big box - waited to long to upgrade so got hold of the crack.
From there he got hooked on the 'collecting' & ended up with a huge collection of warez, folders full of every effect & synth you can think of - thing is he had so much he'd just spend weeks crawling through prests, downloading the newest versions & he wasn't even making music anymore!
He bought a mac (initially so he could get the 'new' logic) & started using cracks on that as well till one day he decided he had to clean out, clean up & actually start making music again.
He's working making music full time now, he saved up (& had some money invested in him by a friend) ended up with a couple of macs & logic for the mac & a few choice pluggies - he's happy as a pig in shit.
Thing is he'd have happily upgraded to 5.5 on p.c. if he could have found it, & would likely have still ended up with the macs & buying logic for the mac also.
Damn I had shit loads or stuff, but was still mainly playing with rebirth & my legit version of cubarse.
Moral of story? don't know if there is one, but I suppose warez users can be educated/reformed, there's free/cheap stuff out there that makes using warez redundant.
My next move will probably to get hold of some more effects, when i'm ready - i'm in no rush though - the freebies are so damn tasty, blockfish, arcdev delays, posihfopit, pocket limiter, IQ4, retrodelay to name just a few.
When I do purchase effects though you can bet your bollox that they'll be from devs who use minimal copy protection, no pace & interlok or synchrosoft crap for me thank you very much.
And for those who don't believe that those copy protections have an effect - i've seen almost identical setups copyprotected & warezed 'protection free' & there is a difference, i've seen different versions on the same machine run different & it is the legit versions that caused problems, so I believe my purchasing decisons are 'educated'.
Oh well i'll likely get slated by at least a few people for this, but you know i've found that ex-warez users can go one of two ways, easygoing & understanding (as I feel myself to be) or all 'born-again brimstone & hellfire' like some ex-smokers who tend to 'protest too much'.
My two cents:
I spent a lot of money on software before I even understood what it did & got stiffed in some cases.
I ended up later with a lot of 'warez' I didn't even use.
I found some software that I liked, I thought was fairly priced & had copy protection I could live with, I also found some incredible freebies (thanks to KVR mainly).
I got rid of my warez, sold or gave away software I didn't use & bought the aforementioned software.
Mine is not an isolated case, I had a few friends who also used warez - thing is once they actually started really making music they all eventually (some were more resistant than others) bought what they used & are all happier & more productive for it.
I know others who bought stuff from day one (they all had larger disposable incomes).
That is purely a personal story, don't know how much wider relevance it's got, it's probably part of the reason why I never get into having a dig at people for being a suspected 'crack-head', I figure if they're serious they'll eventually buy the real thing.
Anaybody who makes money from their art/craft & still uses warez I don't understand though - that's just wrong.
Anybody who makes money from selling cd's with warez on etc. - they're wrong to the power of wrong.
I won't ever buy/use software with invasive or intrusive copy protection, I feel that's also wrong & misguided/misjudged on the developers part.
Anyone who has ever used (even if you haven't used) warez knows how easy it is to find this stuff, & the illegitimate users have less hassle/problems than the legitimate ones in many cases - remember rip rowans reviews on waves & pace?
Flame away if you want cos' I used to be an 'evil' warez user, I don't care, I found what I like & paid for it once I actually started using it.
People collect warez, seriously they collect it so that they can show their friends, but in my experience they rarely actually use it - & I don't just associate with warez-kiddies I know & have known pros.
Case in point, knew a guy who had cracked logic 5.5 platinum for p.c, he originally had logic gold big box - waited to long to upgrade so got hold of the crack.
From there he got hooked on the 'collecting' & ended up with a huge collection of warez, folders full of every effect & synth you can think of - thing is he had so much he'd just spend weeks crawling through prests, downloading the newest versions & he wasn't even making music anymore!
He bought a mac (initially so he could get the 'new' logic) & started using cracks on that as well till one day he decided he had to clean out, clean up & actually start making music again.
He's working making music full time now, he saved up (& had some money invested in him by a friend) ended up with a couple of macs & logic for the mac & a few choice pluggies - he's happy as a pig in shit.
Thing is he'd have happily upgraded to 5.5 on p.c. if he could have found it, & would likely have still ended up with the macs & buying logic for the mac also.
Damn I had shit loads or stuff, but was still mainly playing with rebirth & my legit version of cubarse.
Moral of story? don't know if there is one, but I suppose warez users can be educated/reformed, there's free/cheap stuff out there that makes using warez redundant.
My next move will probably to get hold of some more effects, when i'm ready - i'm in no rush though - the freebies are so damn tasty, blockfish, arcdev delays, posihfopit, pocket limiter, IQ4, retrodelay to name just a few.
When I do purchase effects though you can bet your bollox that they'll be from devs who use minimal copy protection, no pace & interlok or synchrosoft crap for me thank you very much.
And for those who don't believe that those copy protections have an effect - i've seen almost identical setups copyprotected & warezed 'protection free' & there is a difference, i've seen different versions on the same machine run different & it is the legit versions that caused problems, so I believe my purchasing decisons are 'educated'.
Oh well i'll likely get slated by at least a few people for this, but you know i've found that ex-warez users can go one of two ways, easygoing & understanding (as I feel myself to be) or all 'born-again brimstone & hellfire' like some ex-smokers who tend to 'protest too much'.
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- KVRian
- 975 posts since 31 Jan, 2005
@diverdee I'm on the same page as you, altouh I've never ever played around with reason.
I own or use freeware for everything I make music on.
Same goes for my development and graphics programs, but I came from 100%warez aswell. But after my teens when I got a steady job, I began paying. And even though I dont make any money on the music, or the software I develop, I'm having a heck of a good time doing both, and its the only hobby I have so I dont mind paying for it. Doing so actually makes me feel a lot better.
I own or use freeware for everything I make music on.
Same goes for my development and graphics programs, but I came from 100%warez aswell. But after my teens when I got a steady job, I began paying. And even though I dont make any money on the music, or the software I develop, I'm having a heck of a good time doing both, and its the only hobby I have so I dont mind paying for it. Doing so actually makes me feel a lot better.
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- KVRAF
- 2028 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from New York, N.Y.
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- KVRian
- 1244 posts since 21 Nov, 2003 from San Francisco
We could also make fake rar archives that look like cracked versions of software, the same file size and file names, even the obligatory NFO files and instalation programs, but instead of installing the software it installs a virus. 
then we put these files out on P2P networks.
then we put these files out on P2P networks.-
- KVRAF
- 10815 posts since 26 Nov, 2004 from UK
has been done long beforeo'malley wrote:We could also make fake rar archives that look like cracked versions of software, the same file size and file names, even the obligatory NFO files and instalation programs, but instead of installing the software it installs a virus.
thats another reason not to use warez!!!!! you dont know what you are installing
@Will K
there has been some good advice posted here about your disowned famerly member, i reconmend you take it!!! god only knows what he has in store for us, & trust me! its horible when someone dies & the last time you saw them was not on good terms
Subz
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- KVRian
- 975 posts since 31 Jan, 2005
Some dudes made that, but with a porn movie named Harry Potter and the (something).avio'malley wrote:We could also make fake rar archives that look like cracked versions of software, the same file size and file names, even the obligatory NFO files and instalation programs, but instead of installing the software it installs a virus.
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- KVRist
- 285 posts since 24 Feb, 2005 from Berlin, Germany
to all major music software developer:
1- drop the price of your products
2- avoid dongles and challenge/response, just use serial
3- allow the buyer to get all formats for all platforms (with exclusion of tdm for obvious reasons) with one buy
4- give a real assistance and fix the bugs of your software, don't sell a 1.0 if it's still a 0.9
will this stop piracy? not! but it will make legal buy more attractive.
camelaudio, refx, u-he, audio damage, sound bytes... thank you for using just the serial!
1- drop the price of your products
2- avoid dongles and challenge/response, just use serial
3- allow the buyer to get all formats for all platforms (with exclusion of tdm for obvious reasons) with one buy
4- give a real assistance and fix the bugs of your software, don't sell a 1.0 if it's still a 0.9
will this stop piracy? not! but it will make legal buy more attractive.
camelaudio, refx, u-he, audio damage, sound bytes... thank you for using just the serial!
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- KVRist
- 440 posts since 11 Jul, 2003
I'm quite surprised at how many people here seem not to have seized the opportunity to become cops, or is it just an irresistible fascination for denunciation?
If you want to fight warez, do your best for the living conditions to be little more even all over the world. Why do you think most counterfeit products originate from South East Asia, Russia or Latin America and are primarily sold and used there? The amount of money it costs a citizen from a Western country to purchase a piece of software is relatively way smaller than what it costs citizen of many poorer countries. Should we answer those people that they should have the hobbies they can afford? " Sorry guys, why don't you use rubbish tape recorders?, you don't need that Cubase thingumabob".
The technological gap between the economic "North" and the economic "South" is widening each day more. If warez can help reducing it in a way, then most of your holier than thou attitudes are worthless and finally morally questionable.
I agree that it may not justify the fact that some people who may afford the software they use illegitimately do actually use it. But let's face it, globalization is well...a global thing. If you can sell your products to wherever in the world one can think of with distribution costs close to 0 due to electronic shipping (and increase the range of your potential custommers by that) then you have to face the opposite effect(the fact that warez being cracked by people from poorer regions of the world can be bought/used by richer people. The issue is about the balance between the twos. Yes, many small devs have to quit the business because they don't sell enough. Piracy might be a determining factor in that or not. Or maybe also the lack of a proper marketting and promotion or even distribution(yes they are still people who buy their music gear, software and hardware in shops and don't spend their whole days and nights lurking on kvr) and the fact that the market is already very crowded.
Of course you can try to tackle warez the way some copyright associations do, and for each cracking group dismanteled see two more emerging. I think you really have better to do. Like making music for instance, or take part in the 7898th Kvr thread about what's the best synth to make Euro Trance.
If you want to fight warez, do your best for the living conditions to be little more even all over the world. Why do you think most counterfeit products originate from South East Asia, Russia or Latin America and are primarily sold and used there? The amount of money it costs a citizen from a Western country to purchase a piece of software is relatively way smaller than what it costs citizen of many poorer countries. Should we answer those people that they should have the hobbies they can afford? " Sorry guys, why don't you use rubbish tape recorders?, you don't need that Cubase thingumabob".
The technological gap between the economic "North" and the economic "South" is widening each day more. If warez can help reducing it in a way, then most of your holier than thou attitudes are worthless and finally morally questionable.
I agree that it may not justify the fact that some people who may afford the software they use illegitimately do actually use it. But let's face it, globalization is well...a global thing. If you can sell your products to wherever in the world one can think of with distribution costs close to 0 due to electronic shipping (and increase the range of your potential custommers by that) then you have to face the opposite effect(the fact that warez being cracked by people from poorer regions of the world can be bought/used by richer people. The issue is about the balance between the twos. Yes, many small devs have to quit the business because they don't sell enough. Piracy might be a determining factor in that or not. Or maybe also the lack of a proper marketting and promotion or even distribution(yes they are still people who buy their music gear, software and hardware in shops and don't spend their whole days and nights lurking on kvr) and the fact that the market is already very crowded.
Of course you can try to tackle warez the way some copyright associations do, and for each cracking group dismanteled see two more emerging. I think you really have better to do. Like making music for instance, or take part in the 7898th Kvr thread about what's the best synth to make Euro Trance.
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- KVRAF
- 3511 posts since 27 Dec, 2002 from North East England
Ker-wrong!Soulbrother wrote:Some manufacturers overcharge wildly for their plugins...
The average bedroom enthusiast cant afford them, so he pirates them. Nobody loses out, bedroom producer would never have bought them anyway. Waves -Im sure, knows this, and probably doesnt care, thats why they charge so much for them.
Though Mr Bedroom Producer may not be able to afford, say, the Waves compressor, he can certainly afford a lower priced competing plug-in. Because his distorted sense of entitlement has made him decide he deserves to use the Waves compressor for free, some other dev selling a compressor of comparable quality for a perfectly reasonable price (say $40) has just lost a sale.
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
Ker-wright cron, that's why crack babies need educating as to what free & cheap stuff is out there (although as loomchild pointed out 'cheap' is most definately a relative term when you have to consider that people in some countries may be making the equivalent of only $1-$2 a day working full time, which is certainly food for thought, though this discussion is better limited to those who can realistically afford to buy software rather than use warez)
A guy (knowing my history as a 'collector') asked me a while ago for some plugins.
I banged a load of quality freebies on a disk, he didn't know they were freebies - he thought they were crack copies.
I still don't think he believes me
A guy (knowing my history as a 'collector') asked me a while ago for some plugins.
I banged a load of quality freebies on a disk, he didn't know they were freebies - he thought they were crack copies.
I still don't think he believes me