One simple way to fight Piracy / Warez - everybody helps !

[fabi]

well hard to compare families who were living their lives peacefully and taken away to get burned, with people having relations with terror acts imo.

You probably meant to write: "well hard to compare families who were living their lives peacefully and taken away to get burned, with people who may or may not have relations with terror acts and who then are held indefinitely without charges or trial."

been to lazy to answer in that vain, but yes, indeed.

[aciddose]

nark!

why cant you just let them binge on their native methruments, you can even supply it for them! we all know they'll crash eventually, and so the problem will solve itself. we might have to deal with poor defenceless old ladies being attacked in the street by over dilated punks wielding glowsticks and low class trance and dnb, but.. er.. hm.

[munchkin]

Interesting how a thread rallying everyone to police warez has turned into one about how pointless that would be.

The consensus seems to be that warez is wrong but it's not our job to police it. Perhaps that is worth bearing in mind the next time someone wants to use KVR to campaign against warez.

I don't like the implication that unless we all condemn warez and recomfirm our anti-warez credentials like Stalinist stooges then we're off to the warez users camps in Siberia. It smacks of a fait accompli.

The debate is set up by anti-warez prostelysers so that they can use it as a platform to rant and moralise. And scare off any discussion. Even though we do not condone warez but try to have a rational debate about the social reasons for its existance the guillotine falls down on our heads like victims of inquisitional theology. The prostelysers allow only one orthodoxy. Their own!

Then there is the issue of bias to consider in this issue. William K is a dev who makes money out of software. For him warez is an issue. But for most of us who do not make money out of software there is no incentive to care. The agenda on this issue seems to be set up by those who have an incentive to pursue it. And a moralistic and draconian attitude seems to be part and parcel of their approach.

I think this thread is a watershed. Finally, people are saying we will not be coralled into campaigns that have nothing to do with us. We will not agree that everything is black and white just to be seen as good citizens of KVR.

[Amberience]

I love you Munchy.

[WilliamK]

Interesting how a thread rallying everyone to police warez has turned into one about how pointless that would be.

The consensus seems to be that warez is wrong but it's not our job to police it. Perhaps that is worth bearing in mind the next time someone wants to use KVR to campaign against warez.

I don't like the implication that unless we all condemn warez and recomfirm our anti-warez credentials like Stalinist stooges then we're off to the warez users camps in Siberia. It smacks of a fait accompli.

The debate is set up by anti-warez prostelysers so that they can use it as a platform to rant and moralise. And scare off any discussion. Even though we do not condone warez but try to have a rational debate about the social reasons for its existance the guillotine falls down on our heads like victims of inquisitional theology. The prostelysers allow only one orthodoxy. Their own!

Then there is the issue of bias to consider in this issue. William K is a dev who makes money out of software. For him warez is an issue. But for most of us who do not make money out of software there is no incentive to care. The agenda on this issue seems to be set up by those who have an incentive to pursue it. And a moralistic and draconian attitude seems to be part and parcel of their approach.

I think this thread is a watershed. Finally, people are saying we will not be coralled into campaigns that have nothing to do with us. We will not agree that everything is black and white just to be seen as good citizens of KVR.

Good words, thanks.

Also, I would like to reply to someone statement of people who used ilegal samples can't complain about warez... ok, we had our share of problems with the R guys back on the DashSynthesis days. But we did come clean after that. We all make mistakes. But hey, isn't murder also a bad thing? He who never eat meat trown the first rock, afterall, meat is murder right?

So, if you have one piece of warez on your computer, you can't fight warez? If you ever made something bad in your life, you can't complain when others do? Very strange... in this case, we are ALL bad persons and should ALL go to hell?

Anyway, thanks Munchkin for the words.

Wk

[Jason Brian Merrill]

yeah, that rocked.

[play]

So, if you have one piece of warez on your computer, you can't fight warez? If you ever made something bad in your life, you can't complain when others do?

Moral criticism is part of an effort to recognize and recruit agents into a common moral community. For such a practice to be effective, the critic must be recognized as a member of that community in good standing. By manifesting the very trait that you criticize in someone (not just any trait), you undercut your membership. It seems you have to be "in the position" to make a certain moral judgement, which separates those from other normative judgements.

[WilliamK]

So, if you have one piece of warez on your computer, you can't fight warez? If you ever made something bad in your life, you can't complain when others do?

Moral criticism is part of an effort to recognize and recruit agents into a common moral community. For such a practice to be effective, the critic must be recognized as a member of that community in good standing. By manifesting the very trait that you criticize in someone (not just any trait), you undercut your membership. It seems you have to be "in the position" to make a certain moral judgement, which separates those from other normative judgements.

I'm sorry, but I think that's odd. Let's say that when you were 18 you did something bad and went to jail. You do your time, and never even think on doing anything bad again. Does that mean that you will never get a chance in life again? Didn't God told us that we should forgive?

Very odd indeed.

Wk

[play]

I think this thread is a watershed. Finally, people are saying we will not be coralled into campaigns that have nothing to do with us. We will not agree that everything is black and white just to be seen as good citizens of KVR.

Amen to (some of) that. I think questions of intellectual property rights do concern all of us in very important ways and the warez issue is part of that larger controversy.

As for the black and white view: I've been shot down here many times for maintaining that it's a big difference whether you (a) steal from a small developer vs. a big corporation and (b) steal resources which can't be duplicated vs. software (which is nothing but a certain configuration of information and the resale value of which can be doubled without doubling the production costs). The "stealing is stealing"-brigade just will not have any of that, but if you don't accept these two simple facts, a reasonable discussion involving the concepts "justice" or "fairness" or other moral implications seems impossible.

[Ildon]

You're kind of missing the point here, but if you want my opinion, none of us should police warez. Whether you download MP3's, have one piece of warez on your PC... it doesn't matter, it's still stealing and that makes you no better than people who do it regularly. If you've learned your lesson (as is the case of many people, it seems, myself included), then sure, speak your mind, but I think it's a waste of energy to try to police warez.

Anyway, that brings me to my point: you're wasting your energy trying to police warez in this way. Worry about Wusik, not other companies' cracked software or the "what ifs." If you're so upset, get the authorities involved and try to stop the cracking of Wusik, and combat the piracy of Wusik. Focus more, your anger is justified and I respect the hell out of you, but you should change your approach, I think.

[eduardo_b]

The debate is set up by anti-warez prostelysers so that they can use it as a platform to rant and moralise. And scare off any discussion. Even though we do not condone warez but try to have a rational debate about the social reasons for its existance the guillotine falls down on our heads like victims of inquisitional theology. The prostelysers allow only one orthodoxy. Their own!

Those who seem the most intolerant of even discussion are revealing more about themselves than they might realize. There's always some psychological imperative that causes someone to become so adamant, so one-sided and so moralistic. They seem angry in general.

The continued existence of warez has multiple reasons, and warez will always exist as part of the world of software and computers. There are far worse things than warez -- viruses, malware, phishing. Acknowledging the existence of something does not constitute acceptance or promotion of it. Maybe those who complain the loudest about it are afraid that even using the word warez will create more interest in it. Just like the word sex.

[play]

So, if you have one piece of warez on your computer, you can't fight warez? If you ever made something bad in your life, you can't complain when others do?

Moral criticism is part of an effort to recognize and recruit agents into a common moral community. For such a practice to be effective, the critic must be recognized as a member of that community in good standing. By manifesting the very trait that you criticize in someone (not just any trait), you undercut your membership. It seems you have to be "in the position" to make a certain moral judgement, which separates those from other normative judgements.

I'm sorry, but I think that's odd. Let's say that when you were 18 you did something bad and went to jail. You do your time, and never even think on doing anything bad again. Does that mean that you will never get a chance in life again? Didn't God told us that we should forgive?

Very odd indeed.

Wk

Of course you should get a chance in life again. That's a different question entirely. I'm trying to point out that you've considerably weakend your position to make moral judgements. This is especially true if you can't prove that

(a) you will not do it again (simply maintaining that "never even think[ing] on doing anything bad again" will probably not cut it.)

(b) the circumstances that led to your offence are more severe than those that led to someone else's offence (your cousin's, for example)

(c) the negative effects of your offence are not as severe as those of someone else's offence and you took that into consideration.

[Amberience]

Didn't God told us that we should forgive?

I'd watch who you tell that to. Personally, God has never told me anything. If you're gonna start proclaiming God telling you do things, people are gonna think you're whacko.

[WilliamK]

Didn't God told us that we should forgive?

I'd watch who you tell that to. Personally, God has never told me anything. If you're gonna start proclaiming God telling you do things, people are gonna think you're whacko.

Hummm, good point, I will tell him to leave me alone for now...






Wk

[rogerperrin]

Didn't God told us that we should forgive?

I'd watch who you tell that to. Personally, God has never told me anything. If you're gonna start proclaiming God telling you do things, people are gonna think you're whacko.

Hummm, good point, I will tell him to leave me alone for now...






Wk