why are most soft synths and effects so expensive?

[nuisance sonore]

Why is it that when it was impossible to pirate musical gear and recording equipment (because it was all hardware) and it cost a significant fraction of the price of your house, people found the money to buy them in the hundreds of thousands, but now that they cost less than your TV, or in some cases less than a good meal or filling your car with petrol, they're suddenly too expensive for even a fraction of those people to afford?

This is a complex question, and I don't think pirating is the only answer, a big factor maybe but not the only one.

There's been a steady decline in product lifesicle since the 70s, I don't have the data but I'm sure even hardware don't sell as many copies of a particualr model compared to 20 or 30 years ago.

There is a multiplication of choices now, so a dilution of a single product market is certainly to be expected.

The steady decline of the cost of equipement required to produce audio visual material as brought along a democratisation of the field, meaning there is more and more peoples who do this as a hobby while maintaining other hobbies and interest; those peoples then weight in the cost of this particular hobby against other interest they might have, not against what it used to cost 20 years ago. And while this opens up new market to developper of hardware and software alike, this market is not used to paying the big bucks for their hobbies, all the while a slew of new product and companies are battling it out for a piece of this expanding market.

I'm sure they are other factors as well.

You're right about the spreading of the market, and to some degree the reduced product lifecycle, however the potential market size has grown exponentially (the democratizing you refer to), and it's not as though people aren't USING the plugins, or DESIRING them (crack downloads show this), it's that they're not PAYING for them.

Look at what hardware sold, look at how many demo downloads there are, how many PCs are sold to people who make music (Be estimated about 2 million a year were bought by "Prosumers" and that's not even counting those who just want to dabble a bit), 5 figure sales of a plugin should be commonplace, and some should be reaching 6 or even 7 figures (3 million people bough Roland GS units)... but instead we're looking at 3 to 4 figures.

Piracy is not the only factor, but I'd say it is by far the biggest.

Not being in that business myself, I take your word for it. But what would you propose as a solution?

We know copy protection schemes of all kind don't work, as do most represive measures (how effective is the web site where they supposedly prosecute distributor of pirated software? Just guessing here, but not at all). If anything, it look like it only excite rebelious kind to redouble their efforts.

Education as proven to be working, but contrary to what's been started in the film industry (and very locally, in my province, for music as well) and which I know first hand to be working, I see no movement whatsoever from any part of the software industry to try to regroup and put forward a concise plan. If the problem is so accute, why not?

[Sickle]

Observations on this hopelessly complex topic:

Warez can be/is a delivery route to new users, especially ones that flunk around with software till they feel comfortable with it.

Warez is a litmus test for an instrument's quality. If the instrument fails to make the grade, chances are good the person 'trying before buying' isn't going to make the investment.

Developers have potentials to convert warez users into license holders by offering exclusive content only available to registrants. Putting all your eggs into a release is a mistake, imo. Something should be held back like extra patch banks, etc, the way Camel Audio and others do.

People that use the gear they buy would buy less gear. If you're half-hearted about it and don't invest in learning an instrument, your attention will wander, and warez will become an unfullfilling means of Magic Bulleting yourself into Tarnce-Land..

Next thing you know, *BANG*

You're a Dick.

[bduffy]

I own one of those Chinese mics and now I feel bad. Eventhough it sounds REALLY good and was very cheap.

Don't sweat it, man. If you're concerned about this, don't shop at WalMart. Microphones are just a drop in the ocean compared to that. (I own one of those nice, cheap mics too)

[james0tucson]

D'you know how much a cab driver in the city I live in has to front to get a license?

A lot? Well, that's London. I loved riding in London cabs. In my city, all you need is a commercial endorsement on your drivers license, and the way most of the the cab systems work is, you show up early in the morning like a day-labor pool, and first-come-first-serve you get a car for the day. That surprised the hell out of me, and definitely changed the way I call for a cab when I need one! (A support guy at my shop was doing this when we were closing down the office and laying people off. He told me all about how to do it for when the axe fell. ) Kind of scary.

[james0tucson]

I own one of those Chinese mics and now I feel bad. Eventhough it sounds REALLY good and was very cheap.

Don't sweat it, man. If you're concerned about this, don't shop at WalMart. Microphones are just a drop in the ocean compared to that. (I own one of those nice, cheap mics too)

Actually, the last few times I've shopped at Wal-Mart, I've made a
point to note the origin of everything I've bought. To my surprise, I
found that while some items were made in China and Malaysia, *most*
things were made in the US, with some surprises, like Spain (some home
decorating items), Israel (an oil filter for my car), and Ireland (HP
printer ink).

I believe that if you bother to check the origin of the things you buy,
you might discover as I did, that the idea that "everything" is made
in China, is something of a myth, or at least, a significant
exaggeration.

[whyterabbyt]

A lot? Well, that's London.

Nope. In London it can cost twice as much as here.

[Improv]

personally i'm of a different mind with something like atmosphere.

it amazes me that they've sold a single copy.

Why is that? Tell us more, please.

[Sascha Franck]

I believe that if you bother to check the origin of the things you buy,
you might discover as I did, that the idea that "everything" is made
in China, is something of a myth, or at least, a significant
exaggeration.

You better have a look at your clothes and household electric items then.
China, Taiwan and the likes all over the place.

[JonHodgson]

Observations on this hopelessly complex topic:

Warez can be/is a delivery route to new users, especially ones that flunk around with software till they feel comfortable with it.

At which point, unfortunately, the majority of people continue to use Warez

Developers have potentials to convert warez users into license holders by offering exclusive content only available to registrants. Putting all your eggs into a release is a mistake, imo. Something should be held back like extra patch banks, etc, the way Camel Audio and others do.

That helps, but only for as long as it doesn't also get warezed, which isn't long.

The number of sales gained through warez is a tiny fraction of those lost through warez, of this I am certain.

[Muff Wiggler]

personally i'm of a different mind with something like atmosphere.

it amazes me that they've sold a single copy.

Why is that? Tell us more, please.

well i haven't looked at it since it shipped...

but it was hundreds and hundreds of dollars.

and all it did was play two samples at the same time, crossfaded. ok maybe they were nice samples, but still, wtf

and no lfo's, nothing else fun. pick two sounds. adjust the mix. maybe a little thin & weak LP filter. now they play. w00t.

i seriously don't understand. i guess the power of marketing is just far beyond what I would expect.

[eidenk]

On the "freeware numbers" question asked above...

My site's used "7860.35 Megabytes" of bandwidth in the last 6 days. Now, the average file size of my downloads is only 1.5MB. The most popular page by far from server statistics is the freeware page. I have to pay $1 per gigabyte over 7 gigs a month. So, by the end of every month, it actually costs me money to give people free stuff. The original time invested is just the tip of the iceberg compared to constantly paying $$$ every month to continue giving away free VST. Ironic, no? VST is truly a labor of love at this point for me, personally. I'm sure with a team of people and plenty of capital, you can make a living off of VST. For the "little guy", it's a "challenge" to say the least.

Why not using eDonkey for distributing your freebies ? You'd keep all your available server bandwidth for your trials only and it would cost you nothing almost. All you need to do is to run, at least from time to time, an eDonkey client such as eMule with your plugs in the shared folder and put an edk link for each plug on your website.

[JonHodgson]

Why is it that when it was impossible to pirate musical gear and recording equipment (because it was all hardware) and it cost a significant fraction of the price of your house, people found the money to buy them in the hundreds of thousands, but now that they cost less than your TV, or in some cases less than a good meal or filling your car with petrol, they're suddenly too expensive for even a fraction of those people to afford?

This is a complex question, and I don't think pirating is the only answer, a big factor maybe but not the only one.

There's been a steady decline in product lifesicle since the 70s, I don't have the data but I'm sure even hardware don't sell as many copies of a particualr model compared to 20 or 30 years ago.

There is a multiplication of choices now, so a dilution of a single product market is certainly to be expected.

The steady decline of the cost of equipement required to produce audio visual material as brought along a democratisation of the field, meaning there is more and more peoples who do this as a hobby while maintaining other hobbies and interest; those peoples then weight in the cost of this particular hobby against other interest they might have, not against what it used to cost 20 years ago. And while this opens up new market to developper of hardware and software alike, this market is not used to paying the big bucks for their hobbies, all the while a slew of new product and companies are battling it out for a piece of this expanding market.

I'm sure they are other factors as well.

You're right about the spreading of the market, and to some degree the reduced product lifecycle, however the potential market size has grown exponentially (the democratizing you refer to), and it's not as though people aren't USING the plugins, or DESIRING them (crack downloads show this), it's that they're not PAYING for them.

Look at what hardware sold, look at how many demo downloads there are, how many PCs are sold to people who make music (Be estimated about 2 million a year were bought by "Prosumers" and that's not even counting those who just want to dabble a bit), 5 figure sales of a plugin should be commonplace, and some should be reaching 6 or even 7 figures (3 million people bough Roland GS units)... but instead we're looking at 3 to 4 figures.

Piracy is not the only factor, but I'd say it is by far the biggest.

Not being in that business myself, I take your word for it. But what would you propose as a solution?

There's no single solution, but people reading KVR can help.

If you use it, pay for it. If you can't justify paying for it then you don't need it, so live without it. I know that most people on KVR already do this, but a few don't.

If someone you know uses warez, encourage them to pay for it, I found this worked with a friend of mine who I discovered was using cracks, I pointed out that he was getting benefit from the work of people like myself, and despite the fact that he doesn't make much money and has two kids to support he managed to come up with a setup which he could afford, and paid for it.. unfortunately this didn't include an impOSCar!

If you encounter a commercial studio that uses warez, don't tolerate it.

[vurt]

Observations on this hopelessly complex topic:

Warez can be/is a delivery route to new users, especially ones that flunk around with software till they feel comfortable with it.

At which point, unfortunately, the majority of people continue to use Warez

Developers have potentials to convert warez users into license holders by offering exclusive content only available to registrants. Putting all your eggs into a release is a mistake, imo. Something should be held back like extra patch banks, etc, the way Camel Audio and others do.

That helps, but only for as long as it doesn't also get warezed, which isn't long.

The number of sales gained through warez is a tiny fraction of those lost through warez, of this I am certain.

i think sickle was being ironic

[Improv]

well i haven't looked at it since it shipped...

but it was hundreds and hundreds of dollars.

and all it did was play two samples at the same time, crossfaded. ok maybe they were nice samples, but still, wtf

and no lfo's, nothing else fun. pick two sounds. adjust the mix. maybe a little thin & weak LP filter. now they play. w00t.

i seriously don't understand. i guess the power of marketing is just far beyond what I would expect.

Can't say that I disagree. Atmosphere's rep seems to have more to do with Spectrum having been in the music business forever and people know who he is. I wouldn't say Atmosphere's stuff is bad, but there is other stuff out there. I've thought about buying Atmo a few times, but wasn't that impressed compared to all the other stuff out there.

[Urs]

If someone you know uses warez, encourage them to pay for it, I found this worked with a friend of mine who I discovered was using cracks, I pointed out that he was getting benefit from the work of people like myself, and despite the fact that he doesn't make much money and has two kids to support he managed to come up with a setup which he could afford, and paid for it.. unfortunately this didn't include an impOSCar!

Yeah. It took me years to convince my former flatmates to finally *buy* some stuff they use. I honoured them with a free copy of my stuff

However, I have the feeling that piracy is going back a bit. Or at least its impact. Dunno why. I also think that warez guys are more like collectors who just need every shit they can get to compensate for other shortcomings. (Maybe we should start a campaign that length doesn't really count. This might bring piracy down a lot!)

Now, although this thread contains some very interesting points, I think it draws a much more depressing picture than stuff is in reality. I'm very happy with things. Even though I hate SynthEdit. Nevermind. Life would also be much easier if Z was at the beginning of the alphabet. Or if we'd read backwards (Arbez, hmm, doesn't sound any good to me). Nevertheless, I'm happy that I'm not writing business software. Or database applications. Or - being an industial designer - designing 100 rear-view mirrors every year. No, I'm into audio software and it pays for my daily dose of beer downstairs in the pub. I sometimes hear it in cinemas or on the radio. Nothing can beat that, not even the expectation to live on the Bahamas when I'm old.

Cheers,

Urs