that said, some straight-forward somewhere tuby distortion is more of a reality. Get it warm into your ADC
Magneto vs. PSP Vintage Warmer
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- KVRist
- 207 posts since 28 May, 2005
Well, Magneto is one trick pony just like Antares Tube, isn't it? Digital (today's vst plugs) can't give you real smooth warmth, but they all help to get rid of it very nicely that said, some straight-forward somewhere tuby distortion is more of a reality. Get it warm into your ADC
that said, some straight-forward somewhere tuby distortion is more of a reality. Get it warm into your ADC-
- KVRAF
- 19156 posts since 13 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver, Canada
What?omo wrote:Well, Magneto is one trick pony just like Antares Tube, isn't it? Digital (today's vst plugs) can't give you real smooth warmth, but they all help to get rid of it very nicely
Are you saying don't use digital warmers, use analog distortion?
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- KVRian
- 747 posts since 5 Sep, 2002 from Redondo Beach
For me, these types of plugs just add noise. Not warm tape-like saturation at all.
I bought into the hype and bought VW when it first came out. I even convinced myself it sounded good. (for a very short period) I don't even bother installing it anymore.
They are deceiving though because when you add it to a track, it gets louder and to untrained (and even trained) ears louder generally immediately sounds better. Then when you take a step back, or better go away and come back a little later, you'll see just how much worse what you used it on actually sounds.
That's my experience anyway. I can't imagine a situatuon where I would use any of these "warming" plugs.
Jeff
I bought into the hype and bought VW when it first came out. I even convinced myself it sounded good. (for a very short period) I don't even bother installing it anymore.
They are deceiving though because when you add it to a track, it gets louder and to untrained (and even trained) ears louder generally immediately sounds better. Then when you take a step back, or better go away and come back a little later, you'll see just how much worse what you used it on actually sounds.
That's my experience anyway. I can't imagine a situatuon where I would use any of these "warming" plugs.
Jeff
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- KVRist
- 207 posts since 28 May, 2005
no, I'm saying vst warmers (emulations) don't really "warm" nothing. More distorted type of tube gear characterisic in vst word is more atchevable then that nice clear tube or tape fatness. I totallly agree with Guitarjeff. All those plugs are low-end hobbyst market products.
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- KVRAF
- 8723 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand
With a name like Guitarjeff, I'd have thought you'd find use for some of those tools. For some guitar stuff, it's all about adding noise and distortion innit? There's many a stomp box that uses digital distortion. Some stomp boxes are only VST plugins in a stompable box.
Although I do admit that there are some plugins that do need stomping on.
Although I do admit that there are some plugins that do need stomping on.
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- KVRAF
- 4265 posts since 21 Oct, 2001 from my bolthole in the south pacific
I was thinking along the same lines - anything that you might like the sound of when fed through a tube amp or preamp or by being recorded hot onto tape might profit from these warming effects. Especially things like DI elec bass or electric guitar. There are plenty worth trying - Rubytube, Magneto, Endorphin, Vintage Warmer etc. The Scarbee Vintage FX does some nice stuff with its preamp/amp and compressor sections on elec pianos, guitars and basses too.kritikon wrote:With a name like Guitarjeff, I'd have thought you'd find use for some of those tools. For some guitar stuff, it's all about adding noise and distortion innit? There's many a stomp box that uses digital distortion. Some stomp boxes are only VST plugins in a stompable box.
Although I do admit that there are some plugins that do need stomping on.
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- KVRian
- 747 posts since 5 Sep, 2002 from Redondo Beach
The thing is. I like distortion from my Marshall or My soldano because it's nice warm analog distortion caused by hot tubes. IE: It actually sounds good!
If I use a stomp box for extra gain it's going to be my Tube Screamer which is an analog circuit. Digital is great for Choruses and delays, but the distortion sounds horrible to my ears. (I'd love to be proven wrong, but I haven't heard anything I like yet. )
I'd rather record a DI bass through a good pre and compressor than try to add digital noise later.
If these "warmers" sounded good to my ears,I'd be all over them, but I haven't heard one I like yet.
Jeff
If I use a stomp box for extra gain it's going to be my Tube Screamer which is an analog circuit. Digital is great for Choruses and delays, but the distortion sounds horrible to my ears. (I'd love to be proven wrong, but I haven't heard anything I like yet. )
I'd rather record a DI bass through a good pre and compressor than try to add digital noise later.
If these "warmers" sounded good to my ears,I'd be all over them, but I haven't heard one I like yet.
Jeff
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- KVRAF
- 10597 posts since 13 Jun, 2004 from Alberto Balsam
heh. I think VW sounds great. I wish I could afford it. Magento is great, too, but I liked the sound of vintage warmer more. Even if it was the vise-versa I would go for VW in case you want to leave cubase
However for my distortion I use all freebies. Most of which people say are very "digital".
To be honest I'm tired of the "oh that sounds so not-analog" attitude from guitar fanboys. It's a bit elitest, no? On the other hand if one is raised around analog and uses analog gear forever, their ears will be acute to certain sounds that they wont find present in digital plugs. Nothing wrong with that. Just preference/taste.
There are many ways to compensate and make up for digital's tarty sound. Just mix and match a few plugs. For instance, Voxengo's freebie TubeAmp isnt amazing by itself, but when mixed with izotope's Vinyl (seriously) and posihfopit it can knock a nice, "analog" sound. Other things like a wobbley tape delay, springy reverb, or deep flanger/phaser, etc etc can also get you around there with their chaotic nature.
However for my distortion I use all freebies. Most of which people say are very "digital".
To be honest I'm tired of the "oh that sounds so not-analog" attitude from guitar fanboys. It's a bit elitest, no? On the other hand if one is raised around analog and uses analog gear forever, their ears will be acute to certain sounds that they wont find present in digital plugs. Nothing wrong with that. Just preference/taste.
There are many ways to compensate and make up for digital's tarty sound. Just mix and match a few plugs. For instance, Voxengo's freebie TubeAmp isnt amazing by itself, but when mixed with izotope's Vinyl (seriously) and posihfopit it can knock a nice, "analog" sound. Other things like a wobbley tape delay, springy reverb, or deep flanger/phaser, etc etc can also get you around there with their chaotic nature.
Last edited by The Chase on Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 4265 posts since 21 Oct, 2001 from my bolthole in the south pacific
Sure - everybody has their favorite sounds, favorite instruments and probably nothing else quite measures up to what we know and love.Guitarjeff wrote:The thing is. I like distortion from my Marshall or My soldano because it's nice warm analog distortion caused by hot tubes. IE: It actually sounds good!
If I use a stomp box for extra gain it's going to be my Tube Screamer which is an analog circuit. Digital is great for Choruses and delays, but the distortion sounds horrible to my ears. (I'd love to be proven wrong, but I haven't heard anything I like yet. )
If you want to check out any others you could try the PSP Mix Saturator, any of the compressors and other plugins which add some saturation - Blockfish, Crunchessor, Lampthruster, Warmifier, Marquis Comp, GCO etc.
I'd rather record a DI bass through a good pre and compressor than try to add digital noise later.
Technically, what we are talking about here is not noise but distortion - there is a distinction: Noise consists of harmonically unrelated additions to a source signal; distortion is added harmonically related artifacts of processing.
Whatever the source of the distortion, these higher partials are - mathematically speaking - the same set of frequencies. The mix of these frequencies which results from processing of any kind - whether it is a hardware preamp or processor or a plugin - is ( of course) critical to the perceived quality of the sound. When we prefer one amp to another for the quality of its distortion we probably like something about the mixture of added partials and there are probably things about the dynamics of its response which are critical too. People modelling amp and processor sounds have been analysing and trying to mimic the sound of real processors but I guess their emulations are less than perfect.
I
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- KVRist
- 254 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
I must admit I agree. When I listen closely to samples and sounds with and withotu the VW, I don't think that it 'warms' the sound at all. So many people say how great it is, but I just can't hear the improvement?Guitarjeff wrote:For me, these types of plugs just add noise. Not warm tape-like saturation at all.
I bought into the hype and bought VW when it first came out. I even convinced myself it sounded good. (for a very short period) I don't even bother installing it anymore.
They are deceiving though because when you add it to a track, it gets louder and to untrained (and even trained) ears louder generally immediately sounds better. Then when you take a step back, or better go away and come back a little later, you'll see just how much worse what you used it on actually sounds.
That's my experience anyway. I can't imagine a situatuon where I would use any of these "warming" plugs.
Jeff
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- KVRist
- 204 posts since 10 Mar, 2005
Agreed. It's not an improvement as such to my ears, it just sounds different. In fact if I choose to use VW it only on ever so slightly or else it mushes out the signal.When I listen closely to samples and sounds with and withotu the VW, I don't think that it 'warms' the sound at all. So many people say how great it is, but I just can't hear the improvement?
To get a nice analogue sound ie. warm then I will either use Marquis Compressor over the 2buss or put Hydratone with the fire on. Another alternative is to use ValveTone on toast1 setting with no EQ changes.[/quote]
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- KVRian
- 664 posts since 5 Jun, 2005
Can anyone give an example of VW being used to good effect, ie. provide a link to the same audio with and without it? Must be at the same level.
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- KVRist
- 204 posts since 10 Mar, 2005
try the demo out cos its probly the only way you can really judge it for yourself on your own material and see if it's what your looking for
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- KVRian
- 664 posts since 5 Jun, 2005
orangesuite,
I did. None of the presets sounded that great on my stuff, and I didn't have the patience to play around with all the settings. But if anyone can give me a convincing example, I'm willing to go back and try it again.
I did. None of the presets sounded that great on my stuff, and I didn't have the patience to play around with all the settings. But if anyone can give me a convincing example, I'm willing to go back and try it again.
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- KVRAF
- 4265 posts since 21 Oct, 2001 from my bolthole in the south pacific
The presets are not useful at all unless you dial in the drive control to determine how hard the signal is driven. you can't evaluate VW without dialing the drive anymore than you can evaluate the performance of a car if you aren't prepared to step on the accelerator.krank wrote:orangesuite,
I did. None of the presets sounded that great on my stuff, and I didn't have the patience to play around with all the settings. But if anyone can give me a convincing example, I'm willing to go back and try it again.