New x86-based Macs are out!

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egbert wrote: What I was trying to convay was that I don't think Apple has had any kind of edge on the hardware level since the early days of PowerPC when for a short time the 601 was definitely faster than the 486s of that era.

ATA33 was not a bad spec BTW - it was plenty fast enough for drives of that era. What has made ATA drives fast and efficient is A)the spectacular increase in data density and the increase in rotational speed of drive media and B)DMA protocols - eg UDMA.
ATA was more than fine for what most people were doing. SCSI, even if you discount issues such as CPU consumption, as you say: bad before UDMA, not so bad afterwards, SCSI always had advantages over PATA IDE, if for no other reason that in had a more powerful command spec, and most esoteric drive specs (EG, the AV, deffered thermal recallibration beasties) were SCSI only. That meant that off-the-shelf, a Mac was more ready for audio/visual work than a PC. Large companies with IT departments capable of speccing PCs to specific requirements wouldn't have cared, but for small independant production houses, Macs had an edge.

I guess what I was trying to convey is that Apple had a habit of bringing interesting, and occassionally high end, technologies to their base models. That those technologies (Firewire for example) may often lose whatever advantages they once had as the Intel market simply commodotizes the alternative into a standard is by the by.

It's an ongoing VHS/Betamax war, and Apple seem to always pick Betamax.
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!

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bastien wrote:
valley wrote:No, which is why I think it'll really come down to "hmmm, the sexy white laptop, or the dull plasticy grey thing" for most purchasers.
Or they could buy a Sony Vaio.
As I said: Sony are cool. Apple are cooler. I own a Vaio, and I love it. I generally like their desktops too (though I'd never buy one).

My Vaio sat next to my Bosses Powerbook though doesn't quite cut it. And I had to spend an hour carefully scrapping off a hundred gaudy stickers from every inch of the base panel. AFAICT, the powerbook just looked good out of the box.

(one does wonder whether Apple will give in to the Intel-Inside dollars and start gluing poo-poo to its designs too).
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!

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valley wrote:
chico.co.uk wrote:I suspect the quote from the apple rep was more likely to read "We COULD not prevent people from installing windows on apple hardware". I doubt they're excited about the idea.
They probably could very easily.
The XBOX has managed it. Yes, I know that it's considered trivial by some, to modify the hardware so that another OS can be installed on it, but it's just not that easy to do. When I wanted to put linux on my xbox, I quickly realized that the specific version of the specific game that's needed to trick the boot loader, is not available anywhere. Other alternatives are unappealing.

All Apple need to do is apply some significant cryptographic solution to the boot process, and they will effectively have a means to lock the OS.

Yes, the more motivated folks will go as far as to modify the circuit. Some will even replace surface mount chips. But in general, the idea of putting a Windows disc in the powerbook will not be an issue for most users.

Consider that one of the motivations for running linux (for example) on an xbox, is that the xbox is a $30 thrift store find today.

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valley wrote:(one does wonder whether Apple will give in to the Intel-Inside dollars and start gluing poo-poo to its designs too).
LOL ;-)
You will be pleased to know that "Intel inside" has been put out to pasture - if not sent to the glue factory.

Intel has also adopted a new marketing slogan with faintly Moaist overtones: "Leap Ahead"

I'm guessing that as part of a new 5 year plan, Intel staff have been ordered to use their barbecues to the smelt the sand from their kids' sandpits into silicon and start making processors in their backyards.

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valley wrote:
No, which is why I think it'll really come down to "hmmm, the sexy white laptop, or the dull plasticy grey thing" for most purchasers.
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There are some cases, not sure how many, like a friend who wants a mac laptop, but has to use a pc for some work related stuff. This would give him both.

Some banks only have online banking via PC and do not support Mac.

However, for me the advantage of OSX is something I never thought I would say about a Mac OS: it has BSD so you can get under the hood. Where MS are going out of their way to kill DOS dead, Apple have made a CLI integral to their OS. I'm certainly not going to send flowers to an MS-DOS funeral, but I like having a command line.

Also, where is SFTd, SCPd, and SSHd on WinXP? I have to run Cygwin and deal with the extra attendant administration. Those services are just a mouse click away with MacOSX.
I have been Mac based for some years. OSX opened up the world of the command line for me. Now I have learned quite a bit about Linux and do like that I can run much Linux software on OSX.
I'm sure there are a number of ways, but the easiest is probably just to build a custom BIOS. The BIOS could simply check for Apple tagged boot sectors and ignore any that aren't. Sure you could flash the BIOS with something more forgiving, but then OSX could in turn detect that and fail to boot - making it an either/or situation. The XBox does something pretty similiar as far as I can tell.

One interesting possibiloty of Apple eschewing standard BIOSes though is that they could be the first x86 provider to use Intel's new BIOS format. The current BIOS truly is a hideous relic, and most MOBO/CPU providers seem to be eager to see a day when the BIOS could be replaced with something a little more modern.
Apple is using something called EFI not BIOS

Intel-based Macintosh computers use extensible firmware interface (EFI). EFI provides a flexible and adaptable interface between Mac OS X and the platform firmware. This change should be transparent to most developers, but may affect some, such as those who write boot drivers.

For more information on the EFI specification, see http://www.intel.com/technology/efi/

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From the inq..

USERS WILL be able to install Microsoft Windows on their new MacInteltosh systems, but Apple will not offer a Mac running Windows.

According to Phil Schiller, Apple's senior vice president of worldwide product marketing, Job’s Mob will not sell or support Windows, however it has largely given up preventing people loading Windows onto the machines.

Talking at Mac Expo, Schiller said that there were people who love Apple’s hardware but are forced to put up with a Windows world.

The Vole has also signed a five year pact with Apple to develop versions of Office for Macs and announced plans to release a version of Office that will be compatible with Apple's new Intel-based computers.

The news that Apple will not block Windows from its new MacInteltosh machines has the Vole rubbing its hands with glee.

MSNBC reported that Scott Erickson, Vole’s director of product management and marketing for Microsoft's Mac business unit said that any machine that runs Windows was good for Redmond.

He said it was too early to say how Microsoft might take advantage of an ability to run Windows on Macs, saying only that it could give Mac users the potential to run Windows-based applications they previously couldn't. More here. µ
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If the new books can run Windows/OSX perfectly then I think this would be the best of both world. But if it can only run OSX its a no go for me. I'm not gonna pay a premium to have less software choices. Thats idiotic. I dont spend my time working with the OS. I spend it inside apps. And they look the same pretty much no matter what OS.
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egbert wrote:
valley wrote:(one does wonder whether Apple will give in to the Intel-Inside dollars and start gluing poo-poo to its designs too).
LOL ;-)
You will be pleased to know that "Intel inside" has been put out to pasture - if not sent to the glue factory

I'm guessing that as part of a new 5 year plan, Intel staff have been ordered to use their barbecues to the smelt the sand from their kids' sandpits into silicon and start making processors in their backyards.
We haven't received that memo at work yet. :D

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Think Different : WinMac. No, that's kinda predictable.....how about LinMac? Hmmm....still pretty much common thought.........how about MacMac...well, that's how they ship. f**k, there's just no way to be different. I'm off to type 58008 and 5318804 on my inverted calculator.

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Thinking about devs side (specially small devs), in a near future, is to find out a elegant argument to justify a loss of the fukcing time in write and build the same app, worry about multiplatform / crossplatform compatibility between OS's that will eventually end up doing mostly the same behaviour.

Crossplatform for one platform, could be more stupid?.
"If I could just say a few words... then I'd be a public speaker" -- Homer Simpson

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So if Windows can run on the new Macs, why won't the Mac OS run on a windows machine? Is it the fact that they won't support any other motherboard/bios besides their own in the MacOSX? What if you install the Mac motherboard on your PC?

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why won't the Mac OS run on a windows machine?
With window machine you mean standard x86 'pc', well between me and you: already does.

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A3ntar wrote:So if Windows can run on the new Macs, why won't the Mac OS run on a windows machine? Is it the fact that they won't support any other motherboard/bios besides their own in the MacOSX? What if you install the Mac motherboard on your PC?
There's a chip on the mobo, like a dongle, OSX looks for it, won't run without it.

That's an interesting idea, installing an IntelMac mobo in a custom machine......

Here's another article on XP running on the new Macs.
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0506intelmac.html

They have a problem with the video adaptor.
Seems people have a hard time getting XP to run in
full screen at high res.....
I'm sure they'll sort that out in no time at at all..

This changes everything.....

Imagine a machine that can run Logic 7 and
an XP only app like SONAR....
Admittedely...not at the same time but still
it's a big step towards multi platform capability....

Apple has done it again......

Smart bastards they be.....

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Reverse Engineer wrote:Today is "Stevenote" day........lets see what funderful Maccessories are revealed to the gaping mouthed (pre) pub(escants)lic attending. And they WILL swallow Steve, you can bet on it. ;)
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=#1605330
GypsyJazz wrote:Apple has done it again......

Smart bastards they be.....
Now brush yer teeth :hihi: :lol:

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GypsyJazz wrote:
Apple has done it again......

Smart bastards they be.....
:hihi:

A lot of people already had machines that could run Logic and Sonar. They were called PC's. Then one day Logic magically stopped working on PC's. Forgot how that happened exactly.

I think Apple should cooperate with Micosoft and make sure both OS's work flawlessly together on the same machine. Then the new Macs would have a killer advantage. I dont think Steve Jobs's pride will allow him to do that tho.
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