Tracktion Software

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:18 pm

BUMP!!! First post edited..

djsubject · Post by **djsubject** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:48 pm

IIRs wrote:BUMP!!! First post edited..

rockstar_not · Post by **rockstar_not** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:30 pm

IIRs or DJSubject,

Can you describe, for a groove-simpleton, how using these works?

-Scott

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:37 am

You know how to import them, right?

So, if you have a 16th note drum pattern (1/4 notes in Tracktion terminology) like this one, which has constant 1/4 note hats and some syncopated ghost notes, you can impose a shuffle type feel like this: "Swing 1/4 50%" which shifts all even numbered 1/4 notes back a bit.

Alternatively, you can leave the straight feel but push the snare a bit early: "PushSnare 1/4 30%" for a more urgent feel, or pull the snare back to make it sound more relaxed: "PullSnare 1/4 20%"

The "PushSwing" and "PullSwing" grooves combine both the above, so you can create a "lazy" shuffle like this: "PullSwing 1/4 50%"

If you are working at half the speed with 1/2 (traditionally 8th) note hats, simply use the "1/2" grooves instead, which are identical but at half the speed / double the length.

I usually pick a rough groove for the clip as a whole at an early stage, and then refine it later on, either by destructively applying the groove to the notes themselves and then editing further, or by applying subtly different grooves to different parts of the beat (or arrangement: sometimes its good to have a straightish bassline playing against swinging drums, or vice versa)

That answer your question at all?

asha · Post by **asha** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:49 am

Thanks IIR! I use them alot!

rockstar_not · Post by **rockstar_not** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:59 pm

So, does this require the various drums to be on certain midi note numbers? How does the groove template know which notes to move and which ones to leave alone? I really apologize for my noob-ness on this one.

-Scott

djsubject · Post by **djsubject** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:37 pm

rockstar_not wrote:So, does this require the various drums to be on certain midi note numbers? How does the groove template know which notes to move and which ones to leave alone? I really apologize for my noob-ness on this one.

-Scott

its a swing!

so whatever is where the swing time is will move

a good test is to draw a hi hat evert 4th at 100 bpm, now add a 35% swing & listen to your hi hat roll become a swing rythem

i love them

Subz

valley · Post by **valley** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:26 pm

rockstar_not wrote:So, does this require the various drums to be on certain midi note numbers? How does the groove template know which notes to move and which ones to leave alone? I really apologize for my noob-ness on this one.

-Scott

To follow on from subs' post; if you want to keep some aspect of your clip rigid, you'll need to pull it into a separate clip.

The way to think of groove quanitizing is to boot up excel and and create a few rows of data, imagining that these are drum parts. Now use the column resize tool to shrink or grow various columns. Look at the result. This is effectively what GQ is doing, and as you can see it does it to all timing grids (cells) on all notes (rows).

rockstar_not · Post by **rockstar_not** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:06 pm

valley wrote:
rockstar_not wrote:So, does this require the various drums to be on certain midi note numbers? How does the groove template know which notes to move and which ones to leave alone? I really apologize for my noob-ness on this one.

-Scott
To follow on from subs' post; if you want to keep some aspect of your clip rigid, you'll need to pull it into a separate clip.

The way to think of groove quanitizing is to boot up excel and and create a few rows of data, imagining that these are drum parts. Now use the column resize tool to shrink or grow various columns. Look at the result. This is effectively what GQ is doing, and as you can see it does it to all timing grids (cells) on all notes (rows).

I think I get it - the 'swinging' of the snare in all of IIRs' grooves assume that the snare is always on the 2 and 4 beats in a 4/4 measure; or whatever happens to be on 2 and 4 will move - do I have this right or not?

Time to experiment. I'm going to fire up stepchild to make a guaranteed straight time simple groove - and then try quantizing it with one of the more extreme groove templates and overlay them or put them one above the other in a couple of tracks just to inspect what's going on - cuz I'm ignorant (if you can't already tell) what gets 'swung' and what does not.

Thanks for your patience.

-Scott

chico.co.uk · Post by **chico.co.uk** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:20 pm

Scott,

It's one of those "dancing about architecture" moments mate, it's easier to do it than talk about it

Give it a go, i'm sure it'll all become clear. You're definitely on the right lines though, if that helps

Plat deserves some kind of medal for putting these together, they can give a really ordinary part a kick into life. Which is great, 'cos I do really ordinary parts , hmmm, quite well ... on a good day ...

freeztar · Post by **freeztar** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:50 pm

Awesome!

Imported and ready to go...

valley · Post by **valley** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:56 pm

rockstar_not wrote: I think I get it - the 'swinging' of the snare in all of IIRs' grooves assume that the snare is always on the 2 and 4 beats in a 4/4 measure; or whatever happens to be on 2 and 4 will move - do I have this right or not?

Correct (in principle, I don't know the exact nature of plats' actual grooves).

Jules referred to the way grooves work as a rubber band, by which he meant if you take a strip of rubber and mark some kind of equally spaced metric upon it, then keeping the end positions fixed, deform the areas in the middle such that some are stretched and some are squashed, that's what'll happen to your notes.

You aren't moving the notes around so much as your are moving the timeline that they are quantised to.

It is also useful to remember that note-offs will be affected also.

chico.co.uk · Post by **chico.co.uk** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:41 pm

valley wrote:Jules referred to the way grooves work as a rubber band, by which he meant if you take a strip of rubber and mark some kind of equally spaced metric upon it, then keeping the end positions fixed, deform the areas in the middle such that some are stretched and some are squashed, that's what'll happen to your notes.

You aren't moving the notes around so much as your are moving the timeline that they are quantised to.

This Jules guy sounds like a cross between Buddha and Stephen Hawking ... except with vector graphics

rockstar_not · Post by **rockstar_not** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:40 am

Thanks all to helping me join 'The IIRs Groove Nation'.

I took chico's advice and just tried it out tonight.

My first time ever results posted over at the auditorium at this location

Thanks again to everyone's patience with me. I'm a white bread, fat-free milk kind of guy and the word 'groove' always seemed to have nefarious connotations to me before.

I will definitely be experimenting more with these.

Did I say it enough already - thanks all, IIRs in particular for putting this template out there.

-Scott

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:48 am

Tracktion Software

KVR Audio

Groove Templates