Virus Ti and Tracktion - first reports
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- KVRian
- 500 posts since 27 Nov, 2003 from Oslo, Norway
Bump!
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1185 posts since 2 Jan, 2004 from England
Actually I have encountered a problem that tracktion presents. I've spent a long time getting to know the synth, using viruscontrol without difficulty.
However, there is an issue rendering audio in tracktion from the viruscontrol VST.
The problem is that tracktion appears to render in faster than realtime; and the virus synth needs 1x rendering, because you use the hardware engine. Although you can export audio at 1x, then reimport the clips, you cannot render individual clips at realtime speeds.
I hope that someone can point out a simple mistake I am making - [and I haven't checked the mackie site for a few months to see if I have the latest version of T2] - but otherwise this is a real problem. A good old fashioned midiUSB interface would sort out the hardware synth sounds but render the viruscontrol useless...
I emailed Access, and their reply was quick, correct and courteous, so top marks there.
However they did tell me that Tracktion is not one of their officially supported sequencers. This is disappointing to me, as Tracktion sells alongside SX3, Live, Sonar and Logic in the stores. I guess that it's up to mackie to enable realtime rendering as well as realtime audio export.
Unless I'm being dumb and there's a workaround, or a new version....
However, there is an issue rendering audio in tracktion from the viruscontrol VST.
The problem is that tracktion appears to render in faster than realtime; and the virus synth needs 1x rendering, because you use the hardware engine. Although you can export audio at 1x, then reimport the clips, you cannot render individual clips at realtime speeds.
I hope that someone can point out a simple mistake I am making - [and I haven't checked the mackie site for a few months to see if I have the latest version of T2] - but otherwise this is a real problem. A good old fashioned midiUSB interface would sort out the hardware synth sounds but render the viruscontrol useless...
I emailed Access, and their reply was quick, correct and courteous, so top marks there.
However they did tell me that Tracktion is not one of their officially supported sequencers. This is disappointing to me, as Tracktion sells alongside SX3, Live, Sonar and Logic in the stores. I guess that it's up to mackie to enable realtime rendering as well as realtime audio export.
Unless I'm being dumb and there's a workaround, or a new version....
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- KVRian
- 500 posts since 27 Nov, 2003 from Oslo, Norway
Heheh! You cant render a hardware synth! You have to record every track!danbroad wrote: Unless I'm being dumb and there's a workaround, or a new version....
Your not the first Ti user to ask about this, btw!!
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1185 posts since 2 Jan, 2004 from England
Rendering my microKorg is a simple sequencer midi-synth-audio input affair throught the USB interface. I can rig the virus in the same way, but then I effectively bypass the viruscontrol plugin, and use the TI like any other hardware sound source.
The answer is to use a sequencer which allows 1x rendering. It is possible to render viruscontrol just like any vsti plugin, but because the viruscontrol is a software front-end for the hardware synth, as a plugin it can only be rendered at 1x [or hardware]speed. It would appear that tracktion does not allow this.
I'd like to know whether this is a future feature, or if EXT does it, or otherwise I'm going to have to reconsider one of the 'big three', which is a shame, because I've defended tracktion throughout and had hoped I'd never change...
Sleepwalker, further to your original question, I only work monotimbrally, and have not found a way to use a multi in T2. Having said that, I really haven't tried much, sorry.
Sleepwalker, even when recording the viruscontrol as realtime audio, it seems to crash the synth audio engine. Is this happening to you?
I'd still recommend the synth to anyone, though. The sound and the features are still worth the price. I'm just sad about the viruscontrol and its apparent lack of tracktion support.
The answer is to use a sequencer which allows 1x rendering. It is possible to render viruscontrol just like any vsti plugin, but because the viruscontrol is a software front-end for the hardware synth, as a plugin it can only be rendered at 1x [or hardware]speed. It would appear that tracktion does not allow this.
I'd like to know whether this is a future feature, or if EXT does it, or otherwise I'm going to have to reconsider one of the 'big three', which is a shame, because I've defended tracktion throughout and had hoped I'd never change...
Sleepwalker, further to your original question, I only work monotimbrally, and have not found a way to use a multi in T2. Having said that, I really haven't tried much, sorry.
Sleepwalker, even when recording the viruscontrol as realtime audio, it seems to crash the synth audio engine. Is this happening to you?
I'd still recommend the synth to anyone, though. The sound and the features are still worth the price. I'm just sad about the viruscontrol and its apparent lack of tracktion support.
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- KVRian
- 500 posts since 27 Nov, 2003 from Oslo, Norway
Well, the right term would be audio recording, and not rendering, when recording hardware synth. Or I might be wrong..danbroad wrote: Sleepwalker, even when recording the viruscontrol as realtime audio, it seems to crash the synth audio engine. Is this happening to you?
I havent tried it with traction just yet. im using Live thece days, because im preparing a live set. You should contact the virus forum, its a nice and helpfull comunity: http://www.sunesha.nu/virusforum/
If Access says Tracktion is not yet suported, that means they havent tested it on Tracktion. So you could be lucky, and the problem might be within the Virus, as they are updating the os rapidly lately. Or it just want work properly with T.
I will try to render/record a long audio track in tracktion, so we can see if it works for me. But it depends if I have time today. ill post back when I have done it.
What driver is your virus on? Latest version is 1.09. Some people are using 1.07, because 1.08 and 1.09 have been somewhat unstable, on various hosts.
1.1 is right around the corner, probably before the end of this month.
Sleepy
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- KVRist
- 415 posts since 14 Dec, 2004
Dunno man, I think your wrong!!! x1 render speed is available, don't know if you looked too hard!!danbroad wrote:The problem is that tracktion appears to render in faster than realtime; and the virus synth needs 1x renderingproblem. A good old fashioned midiUSB interface would sort out the hardware synth sounds but render the viruscontrol useless...
..
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1185 posts since 2 Jan, 2004 from England
I thank everyone who is trying to help me out here. Your support is exactly why I like Tracktion so much.
I’ve still not downloaded version 2.1 yet, but here’s a summary of my problem...
Athlon XP, Gigabyte Nforce4 Mobo, 1gig Geil Cas2.0 RAM, T2, Virus as soundcard, various VSTi’s [obsessive buying, just like the rest of us!].
I am looking to render the viruscontrol VSTi in Tracktion. The viruscontrol should be renderable, as with any other VSTi, with the exception that the sound is produced by the hardware synth.
The software ‘front-end’ alters the parameters of the synth, which is then exported back to the sequencer down the USB cable. The USB cable therefore acts as a “USB midi out interface” from Tracktion to the Virus and then an “Audio in interface” from Virus to Tracktion.
As a result of the hardware, the VSTi needs to render in realtime. If I use the render button [next to freeze on the per-track view], I end up with a garbled sound, because Tracktion seems to render faster than 1x speed. There seems to be no option to adjust rendering speed on this button’s submenu.
Once the virus TI realises that it is controlling the Viruscontrol, it switches to USB mode. This means that USB handles the midi-out and audio-return. I am using the virus as a soundcard, so I cannot record to any soundcard audio inputs [that would mean connecting the virus to itself!]
I know tracktion can export audio to wav at 1x speed, but for some reason this mutes the synth engine and I have to restart Tracktion. This is likely a bug in the TI. I want to render individual tracks to audio and then move onto another.
There are user presets available for the viruscontrol, not on the synth itself, that I’d like to use in tracks. Is 1x non-export rendering a feature of T2 that I have overlooked?
Sorry if this is a noob-type question, I’m familiar with VSTi’s and external hardware, but the TI is a hybrid between the two. As always, your help is invaluable.
I’ve still not downloaded version 2.1 yet, but here’s a summary of my problem...
Athlon XP, Gigabyte Nforce4 Mobo, 1gig Geil Cas2.0 RAM, T2, Virus as soundcard, various VSTi’s [obsessive buying, just like the rest of us!].
I am looking to render the viruscontrol VSTi in Tracktion. The viruscontrol should be renderable, as with any other VSTi, with the exception that the sound is produced by the hardware synth.
The software ‘front-end’ alters the parameters of the synth, which is then exported back to the sequencer down the USB cable. The USB cable therefore acts as a “USB midi out interface” from Tracktion to the Virus and then an “Audio in interface” from Virus to Tracktion.
As a result of the hardware, the VSTi needs to render in realtime. If I use the render button [next to freeze on the per-track view], I end up with a garbled sound, because Tracktion seems to render faster than 1x speed. There seems to be no option to adjust rendering speed on this button’s submenu.
Once the virus TI realises that it is controlling the Viruscontrol, it switches to USB mode. This means that USB handles the midi-out and audio-return. I am using the virus as a soundcard, so I cannot record to any soundcard audio inputs [that would mean connecting the virus to itself!]
I know tracktion can export audio to wav at 1x speed, but for some reason this mutes the synth engine and I have to restart Tracktion. This is likely a bug in the TI. I want to render individual tracks to audio and then move onto another.
There are user presets available for the viruscontrol, not on the synth itself, that I’d like to use in tracks. Is 1x non-export rendering a feature of T2 that I have overlooked?
Sorry if this is a noob-type question, I’m familiar with VSTi’s and external hardware, but the TI is a hybrid between the two. As always, your help is invaluable.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1185 posts since 2 Jan, 2004 from England
Thanks, Madness, but money isn't the issue here. I use Tracktion because I admire its ease of use, and its fantastic support at both industry and user levels.
I may well have to change sequencer, but first I'll email Mackie and see if different render speeds might be a future update. Beno, any thoughts?
If I do have to change, I despise the thought of a dongle that I have to pay extra for [that's like buying a car for which the ignition key costs extra!?!] and I'm PC based, so Logic is out.
Sleepwalker, how well does Live integrate with the TI?
I may well have to change sequencer, but first I'll email Mackie and see if different render speeds might be a future update. Beno, any thoughts?
If I do have to change, I despise the thought of a dongle that I have to pay extra for [that's like buying a car for which the ignition key costs extra!?!] and I'm PC based, so Logic is out.
Sleepwalker, how well does Live integrate with the TI?
11, 418th in line to the KVR throne
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- KVRian
- 500 posts since 27 Nov, 2003 from Oslo, Norway
It works perfectly in Live, but your not listening to me: You cant render a hardware synth! You have to record every track, just like other hardware synths, and instruments!danbroad wrote: Sleepwalker, how well does Live integrate with the TI?
Its just that you get a vst interface to work with, and from there it is faster and eazier to route signals, edit graphic curves, and browsing presets.I havent tried to record a track with the virus just yet, through the vst interface, but I cant see why it wouldnt work. If it doesnt work, then just use it as a normal hardware synth for now, without the vst interface, just like any other hardware synth. You can still do everything exept modifying the arpeggio. I would also recomend that you record the audio outs from the virus, instead of through the usb cable, because the audios have much higher sound quality. Through the usb you only get 16bit/44khz i think. But the jacks is 24bit/96 khz. But then again you need a soundcard to record into!
You set the output of the virus on the vst interfaces common page. usb or audio outs.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1185 posts since 2 Jan, 2004 from England
Thanks Sleepwalker, perhaps I am expecting to get too much out of the 'VST' side of the TI. I think perhaps my frustration is because of a strange 'mute all' bug when exporting 1x audio [and I have seen another member of the sunesha forums with a similar issue].
That means reinstalling my delta 44... time to get out the screwdriver again...
Looking forward to OS 1.1 though...
That means reinstalling my delta 44... time to get out the screwdriver again...
Looking forward to OS 1.1 though...
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- KVRAF
- 13446 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
Audio output jacks at 24bit and 96kHz???
Those are *analog* outs, so those numbers don't mean anything.
Those are *analog* outs, so those numbers don't mean anything.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- KVRian
- 500 posts since 27 Nov, 2003 from Oslo, Norway
If you try to export audio from midi tracks from the Ti, you want get any sound, of cource! But if you record an audio track from the Ti, then export it, it should work! Its not a full blown vst instrument, so you cant render it like that. So you must record the Ti tracks, before you export or render! Just like any other hardware synth! I understand the confusion, but the Ti vst interface, is just a second view from the Ti, just like Nord Modular, exept the Ti interface looks like a vst interface. It works like a vst, but it does not render audio, because it just links to an external system.danbroad wrote:Thanks Sleepwalker, perhaps I am expecting to get too much out of the 'VST' side of the TI. I think perhaps my frustration is because of a strange 'mute all' bug when exporting 1x audio [and I have seen another member of the sunesha forums with a similar issue].
That means reinstalling my delta 44... time to get out the screwdriver again...
Looking forward to OS 1.1 though...
You dont need a second soundcard, but some Ti users does it because of the higher sound quality from the jacks. Also earlier driver versions gave pops and clicks, and also arps out of sync, when using the usb as soundcard.
Sascha Frank: Yes they do!! The Ti has exelent audio converters, so the outputs are noticably louder, and better sounding then the usb which runs at 16/44!
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- KVRAF
- 8705 posts since 9 Jan, 2004 from leroyaumeuni
on a mac you install the software and connect the thing and it works straight away.. why oh why do people use mac hey?!?!?!?danbroad wrote: Load program, plug synth into USB, unplug then reconnect synth when asked, ignore the XP driver signing security warnings, and let the 'found new hardware' wizard find the 'TI synth' and 'TI midi' drivers. Similar to any P'n'P USB device, I suppose. Should have been simple, but the first two times I installed something did'nt work. The file 'VTiaudio.sys' appeared to be missing. I ignored it and carried on....
The program automatically installed the TI's operating system update on the first install attempt [took about 5 minutes from 1.0-1.07]. The synth LCD confirmed the OS update was successful. Then I started Tracktion...
The virus wasn't recognised.. neither as an input or as a VSTi. Uninstalled program, reinstalled. Suffice to say that on the third such attempt [and I cannot recall doing anything different] the virus control plugin was loaded up. On enabling it as a filter for the first time, the synth then takes about 15 minutes to 'sync patches' , which equates the RAM/ROM on the synth with the virus control plugin. I didn't recall this from the SoS review, but I went for a coffee and let it finish.
The virus control then loaded perfectly by dragging the tracktion filter called 'VIRUS Ti' onto a track, but the TI wasn't recognised as a midi input - so the synth engine was working fine but I couldn't play anything! I turned off the computer, went to work, and hit the forums....
I returned the following day full of potential troubleshooting ideas, only to find that Tracktion had found the synth and all worked perfectly! I'm guessing therefore that any problems lay within XP rather than the synth installer. Nothing like turning your computer off for 12 hours to sort out a problem...
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