FR: Communicate with the outside world

[zOap]

I know I have been nagging about this,
but we really need a way to export/import
Tracktion Projects to edit in other suites.

I have been percistent with OMF, but there are
better alternatives:
AES 31 has become a industry standard, and is very strict. If you can export to AES other programs capable can always read it the way it was meant to be. It also has a ton of features better than OMF.

Discreet EDL has support in several suites. More stable than OMF.

Open TL does have some advantagees too, but less used.

So goes for the Fairlight ML Project.

AAF is somewhat similar to OMF, but is in my experience more stable than OMF.

If Tracktion could import/export to any of these formats, using Converters like AVTransfer, MM-EDL, EDL Convert could bring the projects to any suite on the market. That is what I call compatibility.

Tracktion, along with some other specialized hosts(Audition and more) does not have any other exporting features other than timeline and tracks, or to archives.

That makes working on projects with people who don't have the same host as you a pain in the arse.

Also, if you're layering sounds for movies or tv shows, the sound from the tapes(or whatever) comes in of any of the above formats, alongside a quicktime file.

I would really like to see Tracktion go down this path, it would open a whole new world for them. If not, why not do the same as Steinberg and make a second suite, "Fracktion" specialized on soudn for movies?

Allthough implementing one of the above formats is just better, and easier.

Oh, btw, AES31 is my favorite format. It's strictness makes is stable.

[Mr. Tingle]

we already do have the very versatile 'render tracks to separate files' in the export dialogue box. This I would find most useful and is totally universal.

[zOap]

I DON'T think you understand. When an editor is finished with a video/movie project, being commersials, tv shows or films, he exports the audio to one of the above formats. That means it is a looooong list of audio files which are layed out on several tracks, all with timecode stamps.(btw, I have tried to import these files in Tracktion, and it works with drag and drop, but try to drag and drop a few thousand files and I'll see how happy you are. And automation does not come with it).

It is impossible for any sound editor/sound designer(film) to use Tracktion as it is now, atleast with projects described above.

So it is not only the export, but also the import I'm pointing at. Besides, if you have a few thousand files with handles which you want to share with a colleage, you have to export each track with "render tracks to seperate files". But then the handles are deleted since the tracks are rendered as viewed in the project, one long file per track. And what I need is the original files with the handles. So, again, useless.

And again, I don't think you see the problem cause you probably haven't tried to be in a position where you really need it.

[Mr. Tingle]

I think this would be problematic to implement in T because of the unlimited drag and drop filters.

I would think this kind of feature is a big ask and very problematic and potentially complex.

If enough people ask then it will have a greater chance of being looked at.

[zOap]

I think this would be problematic to implement in T because of the unlimited drag and drop filters.

You couldn't be more wrong. It has nothing to do with the filters. It has to do with volume/pan/etc automation, timecode stamps and such. Nothing with filters. But when we are on the subject; DAR has a very similar way of handling filters as Tracktion, such as the filter/clip feature. DAR has the ability to do these things.

I would think this kind of feature is a big ask and very problematic and potentially complex.

Naah, Jules said in an interview that he used one afternoon to implement the freeze function, Steinberg used months.

If enough people ask then it will have a greater chance of being looked at.

Yes, that is why I keep pushing the forum so that sounddesigners which does these kinda tasks can look this way and consider using Tracktion instead of Protools.

I know that Tracktion is aimed at musicians, but if they DO implement this, they will be a target for film sound designers also. Which increases the money pot for Mackie, which again gives them more resources to develop further(and maybe get rid of some bugs? )

Beno and Jules:

This is directed at you.
In all my years as a designer I have never come across a tool as versatile and intuitive as Tracktion. I simply love it! And for all my music projects it is THE tool. But as you may understand without EDL like import/export I can't do my job properly..

I'm begging you, I will name my next kid after you.

[zOap]

Allthough Ben Julian ZOap has a funny kling to it

[Mr. Tingle]

I think Jules has left the proverbial building..

I get your point about T being used more for film and score work if it had this feature.

I still think it is a big time hog to develope because of all the testing that has to be done, but you never know

[zOap]

Hmm, too bad, keeping Jules on the team would keep his spirit there.. But Beno is one hell of a coder, so..

Well, it may take some time to code, but not more than Acid like features...

Another solution could be to release the code needed to pro's on the subject, like the guys behind AVTransfer. They've allready made a plugin which translates to Protools sessions. So you don't have to buy the expencive digitranslator.

I think they would gladly code a plug for tracktion use. one that could both write and read .tracktion.

[glurgle]

Potential solution:
Third party tool for converting a .trkedit/.tracktion file to an OMF or whatever, then packaging that file with the relevant audio files. It really shouldn't be *that* difficult since tracktion uses a fairly open XML format for it's files...

How much would you be willing to pay for such a tool though? $50? less or more?

[glurgle]

on second look the project file itself doesn't have quite such a clean format, still not impossible though.

[philip]

It has nothing to do with the filters. It has to do with volume/pan/etc automation, timecode stamps and such. Nothing with filters. But when we are on the subject; DAR has a very similar way of handling filters as Tracktion, such as the filter/clip feature. DAR has the ability to do these things.

Actually, zOap, it is a bit more complicated than this (and I know what I'm talking about because it was me that introduced the concept of clip-based filters to DAR's workstations when I worked as a developer for them!)

You're absolutely correct in saying that AES31/AAF is probably the way to go (with a limp version of OMF maybe included for good historical measure), but in the world of post-production, all Avids, DAR SoundStations, Fairlights and AMS AudioFiles are considered equal. In fact, most Pro Tools and Nuendos are considered equal, because by the time you get to 'hear' the audio coming out of those systems, it's generally been rendered (maybe invisibly) whereas Tracktion's just overflowing with real-timey, VST-based goodness...

...add to that that the majority of workstations that support OMF/AES31/AAF et al don't even know what "MIDI" stands for and you have a problem - basically, there's way too much user-specific VST configurations and metadata in a Tracktion edit to package it up nice and neatly and give it to a complete stranger to understand.

That said, it's got to be done - Tracktion 1.0's seemingly-overcomplicated Project and Edit structure was designed with exactly this is mind, so hopefully - and as a professional sound editor/designer who actually uses Tracktion for broadcast TV (along with Nuendo and AudioFile) - it'd be great to have.

But it's not an afternoon's work. Not even for our beloved Julian...

Keep plugging away though zOap, and if Mackie care enough (and they keep listening to Beno, who keeps listening to us!) then there'd be some truly fantastic import/export options available for Tn in the future which, because of their schoolboy-level data structure, none of the competition would stand a kitten in a spindryer's chance of ever getting done.

Philip
Ex-Head of Post-Production-Based Ranting
Raw Material Software

[Lunch Money]

Just a quick note that Beno is not a coder. My understanding is that he is a project manager of sorts. I'm sure he's well chuffed that his efforts here are appreciated, though!

Greg

[pHz]

i think he actually does tinker with coding a little but not on T2 ...

slainte rob

[zOap]

Actually, zOap, it is a bit more complicated than this (and I know what I'm talking about because it was me that introduced the concept of clip-based filters to DAR's workstations when I worked as a developer for them!)

I bough my head in deep respect. DAR is still one of the key tools in my studio, allthough it's been discontinued for a while now.

I specially like it for dialog editing, protools and nuendo never comes close.

In fact, most Pro Tools and Nuendos are considered equal, because by the time you get to 'hear' the audio coming out of those systems, it's generally been rendered (maybe invisibly) whereas Tracktion's just overflowing with real-timey, VST-based goodness...

That may be so, but anyone who have worked side by side in Protools and Nuendo can agree that Nuendo is far better with cpu handling and you can fill up a Nuendo with lots and lots of more clips than Protools before the sequencer say bye bye and goes not so silently into to the big nothing of .temp error log file. In version 7 of Protools on the other hand it seems many of those issues are corrected, alongside of redesigning the RTAS. So there are some differences.

And this is why I love the AES 31 format, I have to this date never ended up with a edl not being played like I wanted it too after a quickie inside AVTransfer.

But it's not an afternoon's work. Not even for our beloved Julian...

You ar probably right

Keep plugging away though zOap, and if Mackie care enough (and they keep listening to Beno, who keeps listening to us!) then there'd be some truly fantastic import/export options available for Tn in the future which, because of their schoolboy-level data structure, none of the competition would stand a kitten in a spindryer's chance of ever getting done.

Believe me, I will. I can be quite percistent