experimental: ok..now.. i'm confused....
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- KVRAF
- 7672 posts since 9 Nov, 2003 from Netherlands
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- KVRAF
- 3964 posts since 31 Aug, 2003 from In a foreign town, in a foreign land
Ah! that's covered by:
The third rule of experimental music is: you get to talk about groupies all the time.
Groet, Erik
The third rule of experimental music is: you get to talk about groupies all the time.
Groet, Erik
Pop music delenda est.
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- KVRAF
- 3588 posts since 13 May, 2004 from montreal
Experimental music = music that functions as proof of concept and rarely much else.
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- KVRAF
- 3726 posts since 30 Jan, 2005 from rochester, ny
> Experimental music = music that functions as proof of concept and rarely much else.
arrrrrrrrrrrrrgh! dystonia, you shock me. i would have thought there would ooze passion from you about experimental music. instead: cynicism. or ... ?
arrrrrrrrrrrrrgh! dystonia, you shock me. i would have thought there would ooze passion from you about experimental music. instead: cynicism. or ... ?
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- KVRAF
- 3588 posts since 13 May, 2004 from montreal
I don't see what I'm doing as experimental at all. The experimental phase happens when I'm figuring out how to do something - when a piece gets made, there's no experimentation involved at all, it's all tried and true technique.
Music as pure sound experiment is not really that interesting to me, tends to come across as a bit dispassionate and domesticated.
'Experimental' is not a genre, it refers only to process. A lot of music (including my own) that a lot of folks would tag as such on stylistic grounds really isn't.
Music as pure sound experiment is not really that interesting to me, tends to come across as a bit dispassionate and domesticated.
'Experimental' is not a genre, it refers only to process. A lot of music (including my own) that a lot of folks would tag as such on stylistic grounds really isn't.
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
in YOUR interpretation of the term yes ... i dont think rachmiel is using the term experimental as a genre tag ... i THINK its more about playing with the boundaries of WHATEVER genre(s) you work in ...dystonia_ek wrote:'Experimental' is not a genre, it refers only to process.
... and yes ... i agree its often about process but there needs to be some way to denote that process if presenting the result of it surely ???
slainte
rob-
- KVRAF
- 3726 posts since 30 Jan, 2005 from rochester, ny
> I don't see what I'm doing as experimental at all. The experimental phase happens when I'm figuring out how to do something - when a piece gets made, there's no experimentation involved at all, it's all tried and true technique.
ah yes, the cage technique. experimentation takes place *before* the piece is presented to the world. that's cool. but i want listeners to *participate in* the experiment, be part of the experiment. :-)
> Music as pure sound experiment is not really that interesting to me, tends to come across as a bit dispassionate and domesticated.
it can, for sure. but so can painstakingly produced music. in fact, more so for me, because it often says: "i've arrived." and i don't believe in arrivals, just waystations.
ah yes, the cage technique. experimentation takes place *before* the piece is presented to the world. that's cool. but i want listeners to *participate in* the experiment, be part of the experiment. :-)
> Music as pure sound experiment is not really that interesting to me, tends to come across as a bit dispassionate and domesticated.
it can, for sure. but so can painstakingly produced music. in fact, more so for me, because it often says: "i've arrived." and i don't believe in arrivals, just waystations.
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deaf dunderkwac deaf dunderkwac https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=78199
- KVRAF
- 5247 posts since 15 Aug, 2005 from RainLand featuring RAinRAinRAin
do you mean like, write an essay with every tune?pHz wrote:dystonia_ek wrote:... but there needs to be some way to denote that process if presenting the result of it surely ???
slainte
just curious, as what I consider experimental varies between any one process of making a tune, whether it be construction, concept,sound production. As I'm an old fart who's been around sound production for a couple of years I also try to do sub-emotive music that so far has been pretty dismal, which (of course) causes me to do more.
i.e it's an experiment til I think I got the result I'm trying to achieve, and I get to annoy people with my postings while I'm in the experimental phase.
As always, whats experimental for me at this moment will not be the same for other composers. I don't necessarily want to say what the experiment is about, because whatever meager feedback I will get will be pre-biased.
I do try to say what the experiment was about later, but I don't always, because of the feedback.
it's dicey
for entertaining porpoises only
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- KVRAF
- 2017 posts since 21 Mar, 2002 from Hutchinson, Kansas
Defining a "successful" musical experiment is difficult. Many musical experiments do not call attention to themselves, yet the finished piece would not be as successful without the experiment. I can think of a number of Beatles/Eno/Roxy/Floyd tracks that would fall into this category. The experiment produces a result that is so much a part of the musical arrangement that you scarcely notice it as out of the ordinary.
I like that kind of thing. I strive to do that kind of thing myself.
On the other hand, I also like a lot of things that, McLuhan-style, exist because of and solely for the purpose of the experiment, rather than a musical message. The experiment itself is the point, and anything else would get in the way of the exposition of that experiment. These things often have a cerebral value, and can even be called upon again in a more "musical" capacity. Certain tracks by Faust, Nurse With Wound and others come to mind.
Sometimes the experiment is not necessarily technological. We can get so hung up on technological systems of production and treatment that we often overlook the prospect of experimenting with the music itself, rather than the devices with which the music is made. There seems to be no dearth of "technology experiments" these days. However, lots of great music has been composed by folks who sat down with a sheet of staff paper and began by thinking "I am not going to write or arrange in the conventional manner". And thank goodness. A cultural universe of 4/4 triads is a nightmarish environment for a lot of listeners!
Of course, one of the main reason to experiment is, as Rachmiel points out, to discover new things. But for my money the best reason to do it is simply to have fun.
Why did I just get a sudden urge to pull out Graeme Revell's Adolf Wolfli tribute LP?
I like that kind of thing. I strive to do that kind of thing myself.
On the other hand, I also like a lot of things that, McLuhan-style, exist because of and solely for the purpose of the experiment, rather than a musical message. The experiment itself is the point, and anything else would get in the way of the exposition of that experiment. These things often have a cerebral value, and can even be called upon again in a more "musical" capacity. Certain tracks by Faust, Nurse With Wound and others come to mind.
Sometimes the experiment is not necessarily technological. We can get so hung up on technological systems of production and treatment that we often overlook the prospect of experimenting with the music itself, rather than the devices with which the music is made. There seems to be no dearth of "technology experiments" these days. However, lots of great music has been composed by folks who sat down with a sheet of staff paper and began by thinking "I am not going to write or arrange in the conventional manner". And thank goodness. A cultural universe of 4/4 triads is a nightmarish environment for a lot of listeners!
Of course, one of the main reason to experiment is, as Rachmiel points out, to discover new things. But for my money the best reason to do it is simply to have fun.
Why did I just get a sudden urge to pull out Graeme Revell's Adolf Wolfli tribute LP?
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- KVRAF
- 3588 posts since 13 May, 2004 from montreal
I don't believe in waystations either, nor in some sort of black/white scheme of 'experimentation' vs 'painstaking production'. It's a big universe out there.rachmiel wrote:>
it can, for sure. but so can painstakingly produced music. in fact, more so for me, because it often says: "i've arrived." and i don't believe in arrivals, just waystations.
Anyway, most of the artists I admire the most tend to just get on doing what they do, without having to have endless discussions on the subject, and without reference to genre.
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
nah not at all ... i just meant in terms of using 'experimental' as a qualifying label rather than a genre in its own right ... so you could just as easily have experimental folk as you could experimental electronica ...dunder wrote:pHz wrote:do you mean like, write an essay with every tune?dystonia_ek wrote:... but there needs to be some way to denote that process if presenting the result of it surely ???
slainte
slainte
rob-
- KVRAF
- 6478 posts since 16 Dec, 2002
This is actually quite the norm in electroacoustic artsy fartsy circles. They think one needs to justify the pieces with pseudoscientific blurbs, and the oddest idea with weirdest execution gets most respect.pHz wrote:do you mean like, write an essay with every tune?dystonia_ek wrote:... but there needs to be some way to denote that process if presenting the result of it surely ???
slainte
Iannis Xenakis and Stockhausen come to mind, and the lot (ie. IRCAM).
I've found a lot of their "music" unlistenable and difficult to appreciate, untill you read the essays provided, which leads to think the essays alone should suffice
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- KVRAF
- 6596 posts since 21 Jun, 2004 from Secret Underground Hideout
my experiments get transformed into something more traditional. sometimes i incorporate the experiment into the song.
i've also been doing the same thing with art lately. my sig pic is something i saw in a picture of a chalice. if yer ever in hallmark, look for my robot in the easter card section.
i've also been doing the same thing with art lately. my sig pic is something i saw in a picture of a chalice. if yer ever in hallmark, look for my robot in the easter card section.
"Most people who experiment with drugs are not lying in the streets, suffocating on their own vomit. If you want to see some of that, go to the Pub on Saturday night at closing time." ozwest
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- KVRAF
- 3726 posts since 30 Jan, 2005 from rochester, ny
> Of course, one of the main reason to experiment is, as Rachmiel points out, to discover new things. But for my money the best reason to do it is simply to have fun.
creating new things is the biggest fun there is for me. but there's more to it than that. it's personal growth, which can be as painful as fun. :-)
creating new things is the biggest fun there is for me. but there's more to it than that. it's personal growth, which can be as painful as fun. :-)