Reason 3 is simply awesome.

[diverdee]

I'd like to have the host application be able to save the Rewire clients setting, as is done with VSTis, as a part of it's native file format so that I don't have to continually worry about saving 2 different files for any given project.

I would also love to have some sort of LFO/Envelope like module similar to the FL Studio Envelope Controller.

A timestretching module similar to Dr.REX would be cool too.

All good ideas, although one can route lfo's as is, a standalone device, retiggerable etc. would be cool.
Tbh (since you mentioned ableton live) i'd lurve to see the same thing in live - an lfo module that could control any live device, midi cc's etc.

[drez]

My gut reaction is that it would be a good idea John.

The main issue from the development point of view would be changing Reason's audio engine to accept incoming audio.

Bearing in mind that personally I would like to see them introduce an audio recording device into the rack in version 4 (a virtual tape machine) they could at the same time add in a Rewire host device with a simple link to launch the slave application, and enough audio outs to accommodate popular slave devices.

So why then did you say earlier that...

Third party plugins would almost certainly blow that concept.

Certainly 2-way Rewire capabilities would allow synths with Rewire to be used as "third party plugins". Why would Rewire instruments be ok but not VST? I don't think that you're being very inconsistent with your statements here.

Like I said earlier, Reason already allows hosting of ReBirth. I have a feeling that it's probably through a limited Rewire connection that only allows for ReBirth to be used. Anyway, you still haven't answered my earlier question. How come hosting ReBirth doesn't "blow that concept"?

Sorry for jumping in the middle of this one, but I've been away for a few days...

John I like the concept of what you are talking about, though I really am on the fence about whether I would actually use it (I'll cover that at the end of the post).

In my opinion what I really really like about reason is the CV routing and the cables in the back. Combinator has made the cable mess much less of a burden. That routing flexibility allows for unbelievable amounts of sonic mayhem. FaX's post pretty much confirms that.

What you COULD do if you had two-way rewire is create a "combinator" module that basically was a "front end" to an external vst/host. It would look like a Patch Bay that you could assign to controllers on an external device. For example, you could connect it to a VST and assign Freq to one connector, waveform to another, etc. Completely customizable PER patch bay and something you could save as a preset. Then you could use the Matrix and the CV outs from the modules to control those external devices.

Could be really cool.

But...I'd rather just see them add a couple more synth modules and I wouldn't really NEED to go to anything external. So...if I were them, I'd just concentrate on adding 3 more synth modules, maybe a "CV controller" module, and disk streaming with the samplers and life would be good for me. I just wouldn't NEED to make it more difficult by adding external programs...there would be no point (IMHO).

I think the idea has alot of merit John, because the combinator basically does this type of function today, just not to external sources. But I just don't see myself caring to do it if I had a few more specialized synth modules.

[Warmonger]

But then it couldn't be used in Pro Tools (a lot of Reason songs end up in Pro Tools) or DP, for example. That would not do their pro users any favours at all.

I suppose I should have clarified that it would be an option. Besides, though I said VST, I just mean various plugin formats, so there could be an RTAS, a VST, and an AU.

Oh, and a powerful multimode would be nice. But really, where the f**k is the HP filter module? I can't believe, after all this time, that they managed to not have one. I mean really, how can the Malstrom not have a HP mode? It's got two freaking Comb modes, and no high pass?

Reason is absolutely fabulous, and is the single most irreplacable piece of music software on my computer, by far, but sometimes it just makes me think, "What the f**k were they thinking?"

For another example, I actually like the piano roll for the most part, and prefer it to Orion's or FL's, but no (optional) note preview when you click a note?

It's so close to perfect for me, but there's about one major point release worth of development in small features like this that need to be made. However, there's been almost zero progress on the stuff I want, and I'm starting to lose hope.

[John Vulich]

All good ideas, although one can route lfo's as is, a standalone device, retiggerable etc. would be cool.

Yeah, it just seems stupid to use a whole synth or sampler just for an LFO. Plus a device like the FL Studios Envelope Controller would allow for complex spline based envelopes or unique LFO shapes.

Tbh (since you mentioned ableton live) i'd lurve to see the same thing in live - an lfo module that could control any live device, midi cc's etc.

That feature already exists. They're called Clip Envelopes...

[headquest]

After thinking about it a lot, I think making the entire Reason app available as a VST would be the best solution. Of course, that would effectively render Rewire redundant, and it'll never happen, but it is, IMO, the ideal solution. At least then they could make a more reasonable claim on the "Instrument" label.

But then it couldn't be used in Pro Tools (a lot of Reason songs end up in Pro Tools) or DP, for example. That would not do their pro users any favours at all.

Why not? It doesn't mean that it couldn't be both a Rewire client and a VSTi plugin. FL Studio works as both.

Sure. But Warmonger mentioned making Rewire redundant which I think would be a bad idea, and not merely because some top-end hosts don't support VST.

Assuming that as a VST the internal Reason sequencer might also be effectively redundant, this might actually take away some choice and options from users. Another issue would be that VST automation can't support the vast number of parameters contained within an average complete Reason song.

I think that it is because of such limitations that the Props came up with Rewire in the first place. Sure, it's more complex than VST and more hassle, but in return you do have a lot more control (so long as the host application is well-appointed in its rewire implementation, as Ableton is).

[diverdee]

Yeah clip envelopes are cool - but...., i'm not gonna get sidetracked on my ableton live wishlist - it's another app that i'd love to see more in, but also totally love as it is.

[John Vulich]

Oh, I forgot... a patch randomizer feature would be nice too.

[John Vulich]

Assuming that as a VST the internal Reason sequencer might also be effectively redundant, this might actually take away some choice and options from users.

Not really. I don't see why the sequencer would need to be disabled. I think FL Studio and energyXT still allow their sequencers to be used while they're loaded as VSTis.

Another issue would be that VST automation can't support the vast number of parameters contained within an average complete Reason song.

Yeah, there is a limit on VSTi parameters isn't there. However, I'm not sure that any Reason modules exceed that limit since they are design to be controlled by MIDI and each module would be addressed on an individual MIDI channel anyway.

[Meffy]

Some enterprising fellow wrote a Reason 2 patch randomizer in MSP and made it available free. Pretty good stuff, required a runtime but it did the trick pretty well. Still and all, having a patch randomizer built in would be wonderful indeed.

A dedicated LFO or some more generalized CV generator is one of the top feature requests. Certainly the one I most want. I recall a fake GUI that used to float around a couple years ago... right cute. :-D

[Warmonger]

Note that although Rewire would be made redundant, that doesn't mean it would be removed. It would require a fairly significant refactoring of the code to get rid of it at this point, and I don't think they would want to do that at this point.

I also don't think the sequencer would need to be removed. As you mentioned earlier in the thread, Virsyn has a sequencer built-in too, and I don't see why they'd take it out of Reason as a plugin either.

[diverdee]

I reckon what reason really needs is a big fat sweaty........




































dongle

[headquest]

This is cool (apart from the dongle idea ) - we're getting on to some wish-list features that - to me at least - are far more exciting than VST/rewire hosting! Like most of you it seems, I use Reason in conjunction with Live, so most of the Reason-hater "Reason's a crap host" nonsense is of little interest. But I love some of the other ideas now coming up!

For my part I'd like to see:

* A "tape recorder" type stereo audio input devicein the rack, with some unique routing options that would justify it's inclusion in the Reason rack environment, as well as opening up Reason to a new generation of users.

* everything that goes along with that (it would be a major addition after all, and would need big changes to the sequencer)

* A coupla new synths - preferably an additive, although an FM would be nice, and possibly a more souped-up VA.

* A massive multimode filter

* Effects needed for the audio tracks required, e.g. Gate, DeEsser, etc

* Note-preview in the sequencer

* A tempo/time signature lane in the sequencer

* Some MIDI effects that could be used in realtime instead of "change events" type destructive editing

* A full on designated arpeggiator (I know Matrix can do it, but I'm greedy and I'd like a specific unit!)

Personally I think that those things are mostly required to bring Reason back to its original intention of being a complete environment... but hosting VSTs is not really necessary if the rack can be complete and self-contained by including all this stuff. Then it would really rock!

(but I still love it in its current form of course )

[diverdee]

Agree totally.
Reason updates should (imo) focus on the 'all-in-one-ability' of reason.
Some nice new fx & synths of the quality of the maelstrom & the rv7000.

[headquest]

There's a serious danger that we're all going to agree on something in a minute.

Where's BONES?

[odo]

the reason why i don't use reason is the the reason doesn't use vst
do you get the reason
over 1000 free synths and fx and you use reason
thats the reason why i dont use reason
sorry i'm drunk
Odo