MUTON FREE Beta 2 has been released to the beta testers group.
This still is a beta version, so please BE CRITICAL, and communicate here.
Cheers!
J:)
Muton Beta 2
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- KVRAF
- 1645 posts since 24 May, 2002
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- Hun #3
- 4265 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from A quaint little village just south of Hamburg, Germany
Hey there!
A lot of bugs seem to be fixed!
-I can safely automate from within the automation lane and wiggling a knob during recording makes a new automatable parameter appear, nice one! (CM101)
-No disappearing player anymore.
-Muton doesn't have a problem recognizing plugs anymore and it conveniently tells me what plugs are "cfm" and thus incompatible on startup.
-GUIs now don't grey out anymore when I nudge them about.
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Not so good , in order of desasterousness
:
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-The whole system doesn't seem to be awfully stable on the whole, ie, there's an ever so slight redraw shakiness, I can't really put a finger on it, it just "feels" like it's going to crumble on me any second, if that makes sense.
When I draw automation during playback for example, I get drop outs and hanging notes, but that's only for as long I draw, it's not so bad.
Similarly the transport bar doesn't go as smotlhy along with the playback as you'd want it to. etc
This may be completely insignificant to the stableness but it generates a tense feeling when operating the sequencer.
-Can't get a sound out of RMIV, even though the samples sound when I press the GUI drum triggers. I know Muton doesn't support multichannel yet, but RMIV only loaded as a 'normal' stereo instrument in the first place.
(Don't know if it matters either way at this stage, so it might just be the multichannel limitation )
-Muton still refuses to mix down to anything other than so much silence
-Muton crashed on me the fourth time I tried to mixdown (don't know if it's related).
I'll send you a crashlog.
On restart It wanted me to agree to the license agreement a second time. So this must have been a very thorough crash , too.
(Or that's what I imagine being a total code layman).
captain's crash-log, stardate 2006-02-03
Sho long!
Marco
P.S.
I love the way Muton handles the Audio and midi setup, the way it guides you through the motions of setting everything up with the little dialogues, perfect for the newbies out there! That's the Muzys spirit!
A lot of bugs seem to be fixed!
-I can safely automate from within the automation lane and wiggling a knob during recording makes a new automatable parameter appear, nice one! (CM101)
-No disappearing player anymore.
-Muton doesn't have a problem recognizing plugs anymore and it conveniently tells me what plugs are "cfm" and thus incompatible on startup.
-GUIs now don't grey out anymore when I nudge them about.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not so good , in order of desasterousness
:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-The whole system doesn't seem to be awfully stable on the whole, ie, there's an ever so slight redraw shakiness, I can't really put a finger on it, it just "feels" like it's going to crumble on me any second, if that makes sense.
When I draw automation during playback for example, I get drop outs and hanging notes, but that's only for as long I draw, it's not so bad.
Similarly the transport bar doesn't go as smotlhy along with the playback as you'd want it to. etc
This may be completely insignificant to the stableness but it generates a tense feeling when operating the sequencer.
-Can't get a sound out of RMIV, even though the samples sound when I press the GUI drum triggers. I know Muton doesn't support multichannel yet, but RMIV only loaded as a 'normal' stereo instrument in the first place.
(Don't know if it matters either way at this stage, so it might just be the multichannel limitation )
-Muton still refuses to mix down to anything other than so much silence
-Muton crashed on me the fourth time I tried to mixdown (don't know if it's related).
I'll send you a crashlog.
On restart It wanted me to agree to the license agreement a second time. So this must have been a very thorough crash , too.
(Or that's what I imagine being a total code layman).
captain's crash-log, stardate 2006-02-03
Sho long!
Marco
P.S.
I love the way Muton handles the Audio and midi setup, the way it guides you through the motions of setting everything up with the little dialogues, perfect for the newbies out there! That's the Muzys spirit!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1645 posts since 24 May, 2002
Hey Marco,
What do you exactly mean with "Similarly the transport bar doesn't go as smoothly along with the playback"?
Do you mean the position display is out of sync with the music?
Anyway, i'll download RMIV and see if i can reproduce this.
Marco, you do know that Mixdown to Audiofile only mixes down the selected parts within the composition loop area, right? If no parts are selected, then all parts within the composition loop area are mixed down.
Maybe you have a part selected outside the loop area? That would result in an silent file.
FYI: i want to improve this behaviour to a more simple one:
If there is a part selection, then only mixdown these parts.
If not, mixdown everything.
Now the only thing i'm still asking myself is: should the mixdown automatically include any sonic tail or not, e.g. a reverb fading out after the last part.
I guess that could be an option.
But then it's a pity to popup a dialog with only that option.
(The Unimited version will also have the option to mixdown to 24 or 32 bit files, so a dialog is ok there; but the free version should be as easy as possible, and asking "include tail" could already sound complex for a newbie)
Maybe one place, one night...
Yeah!Bonteburg wrote: A lot of bugs seem to be fixed!
Is that when using "a lot" of audio files?-The whole system doesn't seem to be awfully stable on the whole, ie, there's an ever so slight redraw shakiness, I can't really put a finger on it, it just "feels" like it's going to crumble on me any second, if that makes sense.
When I draw automation during playback for example, I get drop outs and hanging notes, but that's only for as long I draw, it's not so bad.
Similarly the transport bar doesn't go as smotlhy along with the playback as you'd want it to. etc
What do you exactly mean with "Similarly the transport bar doesn't go as smoothly along with the playback"?
Do you mean the position display is out of sync with the music?
Multichannel VSTIs should be no problem. All other outputs than the first output are just mixed with that first output.-Can't get a sound out of RMIV, even though the samples sound when I press the GUI drum triggers. I know Muton doesn't support multichannel yet, but RMIV only loaded as a 'normal' stereo instrument in the first place.
(Don't know if it matters either way at this stage, so it might just be the multichannel limitation )
Anyway, i'll download RMIV and see if i can reproduce this.
That's really a weird one; I can't find anything here... Will keep on looking!-Muton still refuses to mix down to anything other than so much silence
Marco, you do know that Mixdown to Audiofile only mixes down the selected parts within the composition loop area, right? If no parts are selected, then all parts within the composition loop area are mixed down.
Maybe you have a part selected outside the loop area? That would result in an silent file.
FYI: i want to improve this behaviour to a more simple one:
If there is a part selection, then only mixdown these parts.
If not, mixdown everything.
Now the only thing i'm still asking myself is: should the mixdown automatically include any sonic tail or not, e.g. a reverb fading out after the last part.
I guess that could be an option.
But then it's a pity to popup a dialog with only that option.
(The Unimited version will also have the option to mixdown to 24 or 32 bit files, so a dialog is ok there; but the free version should be as easy as possible, and asking "include tail" could already sound complex for a newbie)
Thanks.-Muton crashed on me the fourth time I tried to mixdown (don't know if it's related).
I'll send you a crashlog.
Maybe i should give a funeral party.I love the way Muton handles the Audio and midi setup, the way it guides you through the motions of setting everything up with the little dialogues, perfect for the newbies out there! That's the Muzys spirit!
Maybe one place, one night...
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- KVRAF
- 7412 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK
I like the idea that you have to specifically select parts (multiple allowed), otherwise mixdown does the entire sessions. That feels very natural.
I shall try to get some time in using Beta2 today - I've had a cold all week and not felt like doing anything. Ugh
.
Yes but how many samples do you keep going for? Until you've had 1 second of silence..?Now the only thing i'm still asking myself is: should the mixdown automatically include any sonic tail or not, e.g. a reverb fading out after the last part.
I shall try to get some time in using Beta2 today - I've had a cold all week and not felt like doing anything. Ugh
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1645 posts since 24 May, 2002
Yes, something like that; and then trim off that 1 second of silence.pljones wrote:Yes but how many samples do you keep going for? Until you've had 1 second of silence..?
(and the "1 second" could be a parameter too of course)
Best whishes man!I shall try to get some time in using Beta2 today - I've had a cold all week and not felt like doing anything. Ugh
Cheers,
Jo
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- Hun #3
- 4265 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from A quaint little village just south of Hamburg, Germany
Hi Jo!
--------------------------------
Overall "perceived instability":
So it's not really out of sync, just a little instable/sluggish and hectic at once.
Like it's constantly saying:
"*huff* *puff* oh nooo..gotta catch that note! *ouf* Close call!"
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Mixdown issue:
The area of the timeline where my sequence is and the sequence itself are both grey (ie i have selected them) and the silent audio file matches my selected bits in length.
Marco
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Overall "perceived instability":
None at all.muzycian wrote: Is that when using "a lot" of audio files?
No, it just seems to jump the lines rather than "ride" along with the timeline, much like a cog that hasn't been greased and gets stuck every once in a while to jump more vigourously to where it should be..What do you exactly mean with "Similarly the transport bar doesn't go as smoothly along with the playback"?
Do you mean the position display is out of sync with the music?
So it's not really out of sync, just a little instable/sluggish and hectic at once.
Like it's constantly saying:
"*huff* *puff* oh nooo..gotta catch that note! *ouf* Close call!"
--------------------------------
Mixdown issue:
Hm, I can't find anything I would have done wrong...Maybe you have a part selected outside the loop area? That would result in an silent file.
The area of the timeline where my sequence is and the sequence itself are both grey (ie i have selected them) and the silent audio file matches my selected bits in length.
Marco
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1645 posts since 24 May, 2002
Now that's a description!Bonteburg wrote: No, it just seems to jump the lines rather than "ride" along with the timeline, much like a cog that hasn't been greased and gets stuck every once in a while to jump more vigourously to where it should be..
So it's not really out of sync, just a little instable/sluggish and hectic at once.
Like it's constantly saying:
"*huff* *puff* oh nooo..gotta catch that note! *ouf* Close call!"
Yes, i understand what you mean. I don't have that behaviour, so i'll start thinking about what could cause that. Maybe we have to run some specific tests on your machine, and log the results, so that i can see what's going on.
Ok for you? (would be after the weekend)
Then we can als investigate that mixdown issue.
And that sequence is not using a MIDI Player, right? (sorry to ask this, but i must be sure, so to continue proper reasoning)The area of the timeline where my sequence is and the sequence itself are both grey (ie i have selected them) and the silent audio file matches my selected bits in length.
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- Hun #3
- 4265 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from A quaint little village just south of Hamburg, Germany
Hi Jo,
>>Yeah let's do some Bonte specific tests!
I'm not so sure it's an issue really, or just my computer being oldish and running OSX, so don't lose sleep over it.
MIDI player...as in external synth?
nah , just plain old CM101/SR202 with their audio being processed inside my Mac.
If that's what you're getting at.
Marco
>>Yeah let's do some Bonte specific tests!
I'm not so sure it's an issue really, or just my computer being oldish and running OSX, so don't lose sleep over it.
MIDI player...as in external synth?
nah , just plain old CM101/SR202 with their audio being processed inside my Mac.
If that's what you're getting at.
Marco
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- KVRer
- 3 posts since 14 Dec, 2005 from Best part of the Netherlands
Jo,Now the only thing i'm still asking myself is: should the mixdown automatically include any sonic tail or not, e.g. a reverb fading out after the last part
I like the idea, but as I know from a daily experience, putting in new functionality just before going live/releasing software, isn't always the brightest idea. It tends to cost more time then originaly planned/estimated.
I'm not a beta tester, but had hoped to get my hands on the new software today. Due to get the system more stable the release date has been moved in the future. Now I accept that argument, but it disappoints! I would not be happy if the later release date is due to late inclusion of new functionality.
I would appriciate it, if idea's are put in a wish list on mutools.com (or a forum) and buyers of the new software can vote for new functionality.
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- KVRist
- 50 posts since 7 Jan, 2006
Hi all, I've only recently joined the beta test group but as I've got so much out of CMuzys I thought I'd try and give something back. I'm just comenting on what I've found during my first look at Muton, so apologies in advance if I'm covering old ground with my observations. And of course, this is totally new to me so I may have completely misunderstood things.
But anyway...
OK, good bits first.
Performance is superb. My system is quite old, but MutonFree runs very well and latency is neglegible on my Terratec Phase 22 card.
The mixer strip is an excellent idea. Perfectly logical.
Bugs:
If you forget to assign a synth at the start of the session, anbd just record the midi keyboard, it
When drawing notes on the piano roll, the pencil tool enters a note in the grid space to the right of the intended grid. Perhaps the pencil cursor's 'hot spot' is incorrectly defined. It seems that the pencil's hot-spot is at the bottom right instead of the bottom left. Try it and see, especially when zoomed in close.
The 'down' button on the synths doesn't work. You need to click on the current synth name to get the list of synths.
If the position/tracking bar is not on the screen, pressing play doesn't jump to the current focus in the composition. It will sit there forever. It seems that unless the tracking bar isn't on the current screen when you press play, the program will not jump to the current song position. I havn't found a way of jumping to the currently playing part of the song.
The pencil tool allows you to draw a part into area before the start of the composition i.e. into negative time. Perhaps Muton assumes you know what you're doing?
Importing an audio track from disk doesn't set the length of the part to the length of the audio track. You must use the pencil tool to expand the audio object. I often use large audio files (3-5 minutes long) and the audio object should expand to envelope the entire audio file.
--End of bugs---
---Things I think should change (personal observations) ---
When you edit a midi control (volume, pitchbend, etc) the 'thumbnail' of the object changes from the midi piano roll, to the graph of the midi control. But if you've edited several midi controls, (e.g. you've changed the pan, volume), it's not clear which graph is represented by the thumbnail. I'd prefer it not to change, but to always show the piano roll.
There doesn't seem to be a way of resetting Value2 settings once you have edited them. While experimenting, I made a complete mess of the volume path of a sequence, but couldn't figure out a way of fixing the mess, apart from trying to draw a straight line along the track.
I really like the idea of a track not determining which instrument is played - i.e. the synth is linked to the sequence object rather than the track. But without clicking on a sequenced object, you cannot tell what synth it plays. Perhaps add a tag to the sequence object graphic to name the synth that plays the notes?
No 'rewind' or 'fast forward' on transport control. I miss this. A 'scrub' wheel would be really nice. Also, pressing the 'home' button on the keyboard should position you at the start of the song.
Leaving the sequence editor is done using the escape or Enter key. OK, but pressing escape in the normal composition window assums you want to quit the program. Not so sure about this.
I'd like to be able to group objects together so as not to lose sync when moving things around.
A track 'solo' button as well as a mute button.
The Value2 editor only shows one set of values at a time. No way to show all controls, would like to be able to scroll up and down through the sets of values so I can easily see what I've edited.
Wishlist for Audio Lab:
Normalise function.
Beat analyser and slicer
'Cut' function to take samples.
Well it's getting late, so that's all for now, I hope it's useful.
Well done Jo. A very promising start.
But anyway...
OK, good bits first.
Performance is superb. My system is quite old, but MutonFree runs very well and latency is neglegible on my Terratec Phase 22 card.
The mixer strip is an excellent idea. Perfectly logical.
Bugs:
If you forget to assign a synth at the start of the session, anbd just record the midi keyboard, it
When drawing notes on the piano roll, the pencil tool enters a note in the grid space to the right of the intended grid. Perhaps the pencil cursor's 'hot spot' is incorrectly defined. It seems that the pencil's hot-spot is at the bottom right instead of the bottom left. Try it and see, especially when zoomed in close.
The 'down' button on the synths doesn't work. You need to click on the current synth name to get the list of synths.
If the position/tracking bar is not on the screen, pressing play doesn't jump to the current focus in the composition. It will sit there forever. It seems that unless the tracking bar isn't on the current screen when you press play, the program will not jump to the current song position. I havn't found a way of jumping to the currently playing part of the song.
The pencil tool allows you to draw a part into area before the start of the composition i.e. into negative time. Perhaps Muton assumes you know what you're doing?
Importing an audio track from disk doesn't set the length of the part to the length of the audio track. You must use the pencil tool to expand the audio object. I often use large audio files (3-5 minutes long) and the audio object should expand to envelope the entire audio file.
--End of bugs---
---Things I think should change (personal observations) ---
When you edit a midi control (volume, pitchbend, etc) the 'thumbnail' of the object changes from the midi piano roll, to the graph of the midi control. But if you've edited several midi controls, (e.g. you've changed the pan, volume), it's not clear which graph is represented by the thumbnail. I'd prefer it not to change, but to always show the piano roll.
There doesn't seem to be a way of resetting Value2 settings once you have edited them. While experimenting, I made a complete mess of the volume path of a sequence, but couldn't figure out a way of fixing the mess, apart from trying to draw a straight line along the track.
I really like the idea of a track not determining which instrument is played - i.e. the synth is linked to the sequence object rather than the track. But without clicking on a sequenced object, you cannot tell what synth it plays. Perhaps add a tag to the sequence object graphic to name the synth that plays the notes?
No 'rewind' or 'fast forward' on transport control. I miss this. A 'scrub' wheel would be really nice. Also, pressing the 'home' button on the keyboard should position you at the start of the song.
Leaving the sequence editor is done using the escape or Enter key. OK, but pressing escape in the normal composition window assums you want to quit the program. Not so sure about this.
I'd like to be able to group objects together so as not to lose sync when moving things around.
A track 'solo' button as well as a mute button.
The Value2 editor only shows one set of values at a time. No way to show all controls, would like to be able to scroll up and down through the sets of values so I can easily see what I've edited.
Wishlist for Audio Lab:
Normalise function.
Beat analyser and slicer
'Cut' function to take samples.
Well it's getting late, so that's all for now, I hope it's useful.
Well done Jo. A very promising start.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1645 posts since 24 May, 2002
You're right with your warning.duketown wrote:Jo,I like the idea, but as I know from a daily experience, putting in new functionality just before going live/releasing software, isn't always the brightest idea. It tends to cost more time then originaly planned/estimated.
I'm not a beta tester, but had hoped to get my hands on the new software today. Due to get the system more stable the release date has been moved in the future. Now I accept that argument, but it disappoints! I would not be happy if the later release date is due to late inclusion of new functionality.
Now changing the mixdown functionality as described is not really a new feature, rather a tuning. (i.e. the selection thing)
The "tail" aspect is more a pro feature, and might indeed better be pushed to a later version.
Yes, i'm also intersted in something like that, though maybe in a more simple way.I would appriciate it, if idea's are put in a wish list on mutools.com (or a forum) and buyers of the new software can vote for new functionality.
I'm thinking about regularly doing polls (like the name poll) to ask which main features are most important to you, users.
You can expect such first poll soon after 1.0 is released.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1645 posts since 24 May, 2002
Interesting feedback, jinnan_tonnix, thanks for that!
I'll get back on this in more detail soon.
Cheers,
Jo
I'll get back on this in more detail soon.
Cheers,
Jo
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1645 posts since 24 May, 2002
it...jinnan_tonnix wrote: If you forget to assign a synth at the start of the session, anbd just record the midi keyboard, it
i'm missing the last part of your sentence.
The point where you draw a new note is snapped to the current grid.When drawing notes on the piano roll, the pencil tool enters a note in the grid space to the right of the intended grid. Perhaps the pencil cursor's 'hot spot' is incorrectly defined. It seems that the pencil's hot-spot is at the bottom right instead of the bottom left. Try it and see, especially when zoomed in close.
So if you're more to the left of the middle, it's snapped to the previous grid time, else to the next grid time.
So assume we work with a 1/16th grid, and that there are 1200 points per quarter note, then we have quantized times like 1.1.000 - 1.1.300 - 1.1.600 - 1.1.900 - 1.2.000 and so on.
Then e.g. 3.2.416 will be snapped to 3.2.300, but 3.2.498 will be snapped to 3.2.600.
OK, will finetune that, thanks.The 'down' button on the synths doesn't work. You need to click on the current synth name to get the list of synths.
This will be added.If the position/tracking bar is not on the screen, pressing play doesn't jump to the current focus in the composition. It will sit there forever. It seems that unless the tracking bar isn't on the current screen when you press play, the program will not jump to the current song position. I havn't found a way of jumping to the currently playing part of the song.
Indeed. But maybe it's better/easier if it's limited to 1.1.000.The pencil tool allows you to draw a part into area before the start of the composition i.e. into negative time. Perhaps Muton assumes you know what you're doing?
Not really a bug imho, but it's a nice suggestion.Importing an audio track from disk doesn't set the length of the part to the length of the audio track. You must use the pencil tool to expand the audio object. I often use large audio files (3-5 minutes long) and the audio object should expand to envelope the entire audio file.
OK, will finetune things so that it always draws the notes, if any.---Things I think should change (personal observations) ---
When you edit a midi control (volume, pitchbend, etc) the 'thumbnail' of the object changes from the midi piano roll, to the graph of the midi control. But if you've edited several midi controls, (e.g. you've changed the pan, volume), it's not clear which graph is represented by the thumbnail. I'd prefer it not to change, but to always show the piano roll.
Else the most frequent event is drawn. (as it does now)
I'm not sure if i understand.There doesn't seem to be a way of resetting Value2 settings once you have edited them. While experimenting, I made a complete mess of the volume path of a sequence, but couldn't figure out a way of fixing the mess, apart from trying to draw a straight line along the track.
What do you mean with "resetting Value2 settings"?
That's an excellent idea!I really like the idea of a track not determining which instrument is played - i.e. the synth is linked to the sequence object rather than the track. But without clicking on a sequenced object, you cannot tell what synth it plays. Perhaps add a tag to the sequence object graphic to name the synth that plays the notes?
Ok, will think about this...No 'rewind' or 'fast forward' on transport control. I miss this.
Will be added together with the Quick Keys features (i.e. key shortcuts)Also, pressing the 'home' button on the keyboard should position you at the start of the song.
For now: right-click the position display in the Transport Panel.
Maybe it's indeed not standard enough.Leaving the sequence editor is done using the escape or Enter key. OK, but pressing escape in the normal composition window assums you want to quit the program. Not so sure about this.
Pressing Esc in the composer should do nothing then, right?
How do you mean?I'd like to be able to group objects together so as not to lose sync when moving things around.
If you select multiple parts, then they're dragged together, keeping relative sync, right?
I would like to keep the gui as simple as possible; and so i would like to avoid to add a separate button for solo.A track 'solo' button as well as a mute button.
I'm thinking about shift-clicking the Mute button = solo that track.
What do you think?
Well, if you click at the left of Value 2 Editor, a list pops up.The Value2 editor only shows one set of values at a time. No way to show all controls, would like to be able to scroll up and down through the sets of values so I can easily see what I've edited.
The top group in that list contains exactly what's in the sequence;
So you should already be able to make a fast switch.
Alternatively: you can work with 1 controller or parameter per sequence; that way, you also always have immediate acces.
Maybe a real multi-lane value 2 editor comes lateron; Soon after the 1.0 release there will be a poll to check which features are most requested.
Cheers,
Jo
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- KVRist
- 50 posts since 7 Jan, 2006
So am I! I forgot what I wrote. I'm sure if it was important it will come back to meit...muzycian wrote:jinnan_tonnix wrote: If you forget to assign a synth at the start of the session, anbd just record the midi keyboard, it
i'm missing the last part of your sentence.
Of course! Yes, you click on the grid TIME, not the grid CELLS! It's clear now.The point where you draw a new note is snapped to the current grid.When drawing notes on the piano roll, the pencil tool enters a note in the grid space to the right of the intended grid. Perhaps the pencil cursor's 'hot spot' is incorrectly defined. It seems that the pencil's hot-spot is at the bottom right instead of the bottom left. Try it and see, especially when zoomed in close.
So if you're more to the left of the middle, it's snapped to the previous grid time, else to the next grid time.
So assume we work with a 1/16th grid, and that there are 1200 points per quarter note, then we have quantized times like 1.1.000 - 1.1.300 - 1.1.600 - 1.1.900 - 1.2.000 and so on.
Then e.g. 3.2.416 will be snapped to 3.2.300, but 3.2.498 will be snapped to 3.2.600.
Great.OK, will finetune things so that it always draws the notes, if any.---Things I think should change (personal observations) ---
When you edit a midi control (volume, pitchbend, etc) the 'thumbnail' of the object changes from the midi piano roll, to the graph of the midi control. But if you've edited several midi controls, (e.g. you've changed the pan, volume), it's not clear which graph is represented by the thumbnail. I'd prefer it not to change, but to always show the piano roll.
Else the most frequent event is drawn. (as it does now)
OK, I've just tried this for real to see if it's a genuine problem. I entered a midi bass line from a keyboard using VB-1 synth. I then decided to draw a 'pan' curve for this bass, so the bass line moves between left and right speakers. A terrible idea, but it's just an experiment. Suppose I make other edits to other objects which I don't want to undo. So I can't use the undo function without wiping out the other edits I want to keep. Now, suppose I realise it was a terrible idea to have a panning bass run. If I want to remove all the panning data I drew with the pencil tool (i.e. get the bass line back to how it was before I messed around with it) I can't think of a good way of doing it. There doesn't seem to be a way to 'get rid of the stuff you drew in the control area'. I hope this explains what I mean.I'm not sure if i understand.There doesn't seem to be a way of resetting Value2 settings once you have edited them. While experimenting, I made a complete mess of the volume path of a sequence, but couldn't figure out a way of fixing the mess, apart from trying to draw a straight line along the track.
What do you mean with "resetting Value2 settings"?
That's handyWill be added together with the Quick Keys features (i.e. key shortcuts)Also, pressing the 'home' button on the keyboard should position you at the start of the song.
For now: right-click the position display in the Transport Panel.
Maybe not - see my next post!Maybe it's indeed not standard enough.Leaving the sequence editor is done using the escape or Enter key. OK, but pressing escape in the normal composition window assums you want to quit the program. Not so sure about this.
Pressing Esc in the composer should do nothing then, right?
Well, yes, but I thought if there was a way of permanently locking/grouping them together, then if one gets moved, they all get moved in sync. Not essential, but convenient if you had objects that naturally belonged together.How do you mean?I'd like to be able to group objects together so as not to lose sync when moving things around.
If you select multiple parts, then they're dragged together, keeping relative sync, right?
Perfect.I would like to keep the gui as simple as possible; and so i would like to avoid to add a separate button for solo.A track 'solo' button as well as a mute button.
I'm thinking about shift-clicking the Mute button = solo that track.
What do you think?
A much better idea. Good thinking!Well, if you click at the left of Value 2 Editor, a list pops up.The Value2 editor only shows one set of values at a time. No way to show all controls, would like to be able to scroll up and down through the sets of values so I can easily see what I've edited.
The top group in that list contains exactly what's in the sequence;
So you should already be able to make a fast switch.
Alternatively: you can work with 1 controller or parameter per sequence; that way, you also always have immediate acces.
Sounds good.Maybe a real multi-lane value 2 editor comes lateron; Soon after the 1.0 release there will be a poll to check which features are most requested.
-
- KVRist
- 50 posts since 7 Jan, 2006
Hi Jo,
I've managed to spend a little more time with Muton and got some more feedback for you. Hope it's useful. I've got a couple of little projects I'll be trying on it, so I'm sure I'll have some more for you soon.
But anyway, let's start with what I think are a couple more bugs, or at least things that don't look quite right.
---
Major bug: When you drag a midi sequence on top of an audio part, you cannot select the midi sequence. You have to move the underlying object first before you can get to the overlayed object, even though it appears 'at the front'
---
I found a problem with the visual tracking of a parameter sequence. I imported one of my audio tracks into a composition. I decided to record the parameters of a VST effect for that audio track in real time as it played (in this case a reverb, but I've checked and it's the same for other effects). I opened the recorded sequence, which correctly showed the changes I made to the effect's parameters. However, when you play the song, the position bar moves left to right then disappears, without the screen scrolling to the next section of the song. Zooming out will find the current location, but this isn't ideal. The song plays perfectly, but the screen does not follow the current song's position. This means that you can't really monitor effects parameters in detail while the song plays. This is different to the other problem I found, as this doesn't track the song even if you start with the current position on the screen.
---
When manually entering midi notes into a sequence, move the cursor to the 'all notes' value 2 window. The cursor shows a normal arrow cursor. OK so far. But when you click -then move- the mouse, the cursor changes to the pencil tool, but with no functionality. i.e. it looks like the pencil tool but it isn't. It isn't really the pencil tool, it's really the 'arrow' tool but when you click the mouse for some reason it's mouse-down state changes to look like the pencil tool. Clicking the pencil tool corrects this (it changes to the real pencil tool), but this is a bug that could cause confusion. To correct this bug, the cursor should not change shape under 'mouse down' condition unless a tool is chosen in the value2 window.
---
When a seqence or audio object is pasted from a copy, both the souce object and the newly pasted object are highlighted. Usually, you will need to move the pasted object as it is rare it gets created in exactly the right place. But as both souce and copy are highlighted, grabbing and moving the new sequence also moves the original. I think that the source object should lose focus as I can't think of a situation where you would want to move source and destination objects imediately after pasting.
---
Looping - I can't get it to work at all. I make a little midi sequence, right click and enter a value in 'Edit loop length' but I can't figure out what it does.
---
I've just worked out the official way of copying and pasting objects. But... it doesn't seem logical to select objects, then click *away* from the obejct(s) onto an empty part of the composition screen to get to the 'cut/copy/paste parts' options. I think it's best if these options appear within the 'right-click' menu of an object or mulitple selections of objects. Just my opinion - you're the boss!
---
Copying objects doesn't seem to make independent copies of objects. So editing a copy of an object also edits the source objects and all other copies of the object. Suppose you had a basic drum sequence, and needed to make a copy to add a drum fill, or just an extra cymbal crash. You could make a copy of the basic drum sequence and add, say, a cymbal crash, into this copy and use this part where needed. But at the moment, it doesn't seem possible to do this. The extra cymbal would appear in the original drum loop as well as the basic drum part.
Am I doing something wrong?
---
************************
Suggestions
************************
Edit sequence name: should start with the whole name highlighted, so any typing replaces the highlighted text.
---
Save as: Not prompted to save work before closing program.
---
Opening MIDI file opens into new composition. Would like to import a MIDI file as a new track in the current composition.
----
Within the composition screen, change the function of the escape key to change from the pencil tool to the arrow/selector tool instead of close application.
---
Use the mouse scroll wheel to control the zoom.
---
Drawing a midi sequence with the pencil tool requires you to change to the arrow tool to open it in the editor (you could right-click and choose edit sequence) but would prefer to be able to double-click the part with any tool to open editor.
---
Editing a sequence opens one bar of the sequence. This usually means you have to zoom out to see the whole sequence or the bit you need to change. Suggest setting the zoom range to view the entire midi sequence when the editor window opens.
---
When a sequence or audio object is muted, how about a red 'X' drawn through the object to indicate that it won't be heard? Much like the mute symbol.
----
MISSING!
I've just realised there's something important missing. A "master" strip in the mixing desk. Suppose you wanted to apply a finaliser plug-in (maybe multiband compressor or whatever) to the whole mix - you need to do this to the master strip, otherwise you have to apply it to all strips.
----------------------
Nice work, Jo. This is a really promising start. This is a VST host that's not bloatware, it's simple to use, tracks audio and midi, and runs on my ancient hardware! Keep it up!
Cheers,
Paul.
I've managed to spend a little more time with Muton and got some more feedback for you. Hope it's useful. I've got a couple of little projects I'll be trying on it, so I'm sure I'll have some more for you soon.
But anyway, let's start with what I think are a couple more bugs, or at least things that don't look quite right.
---
Major bug: When you drag a midi sequence on top of an audio part, you cannot select the midi sequence. You have to move the underlying object first before you can get to the overlayed object, even though it appears 'at the front'
---
I found a problem with the visual tracking of a parameter sequence. I imported one of my audio tracks into a composition. I decided to record the parameters of a VST effect for that audio track in real time as it played (in this case a reverb, but I've checked and it's the same for other effects). I opened the recorded sequence, which correctly showed the changes I made to the effect's parameters. However, when you play the song, the position bar moves left to right then disappears, without the screen scrolling to the next section of the song. Zooming out will find the current location, but this isn't ideal. The song plays perfectly, but the screen does not follow the current song's position. This means that you can't really monitor effects parameters in detail while the song plays. This is different to the other problem I found, as this doesn't track the song even if you start with the current position on the screen.
---
When manually entering midi notes into a sequence, move the cursor to the 'all notes' value 2 window. The cursor shows a normal arrow cursor. OK so far. But when you click -then move- the mouse, the cursor changes to the pencil tool, but with no functionality. i.e. it looks like the pencil tool but it isn't. It isn't really the pencil tool, it's really the 'arrow' tool but when you click the mouse for some reason it's mouse-down state changes to look like the pencil tool. Clicking the pencil tool corrects this (it changes to the real pencil tool), but this is a bug that could cause confusion. To correct this bug, the cursor should not change shape under 'mouse down' condition unless a tool is chosen in the value2 window.
---
When a seqence or audio object is pasted from a copy, both the souce object and the newly pasted object are highlighted. Usually, you will need to move the pasted object as it is rare it gets created in exactly the right place. But as both souce and copy are highlighted, grabbing and moving the new sequence also moves the original. I think that the source object should lose focus as I can't think of a situation where you would want to move source and destination objects imediately after pasting.
---
Looping - I can't get it to work at all. I make a little midi sequence, right click and enter a value in 'Edit loop length' but I can't figure out what it does.
---
I've just worked out the official way of copying and pasting objects. But... it doesn't seem logical to select objects, then click *away* from the obejct(s) onto an empty part of the composition screen to get to the 'cut/copy/paste parts' options. I think it's best if these options appear within the 'right-click' menu of an object or mulitple selections of objects. Just my opinion - you're the boss!
---
Copying objects doesn't seem to make independent copies of objects. So editing a copy of an object also edits the source objects and all other copies of the object. Suppose you had a basic drum sequence, and needed to make a copy to add a drum fill, or just an extra cymbal crash. You could make a copy of the basic drum sequence and add, say, a cymbal crash, into this copy and use this part where needed. But at the moment, it doesn't seem possible to do this. The extra cymbal would appear in the original drum loop as well as the basic drum part.
Am I doing something wrong?
---
************************
Suggestions
************************
Edit sequence name: should start with the whole name highlighted, so any typing replaces the highlighted text.
---
Save as: Not prompted to save work before closing program.
---
Opening MIDI file opens into new composition. Would like to import a MIDI file as a new track in the current composition.
----
Within the composition screen, change the function of the escape key to change from the pencil tool to the arrow/selector tool instead of close application.
---
Use the mouse scroll wheel to control the zoom.
---
Drawing a midi sequence with the pencil tool requires you to change to the arrow tool to open it in the editor (you could right-click and choose edit sequence) but would prefer to be able to double-click the part with any tool to open editor.
---
Editing a sequence opens one bar of the sequence. This usually means you have to zoom out to see the whole sequence or the bit you need to change. Suggest setting the zoom range to view the entire midi sequence when the editor window opens.
---
When a sequence or audio object is muted, how about a red 'X' drawn through the object to indicate that it won't be heard? Much like the mute symbol.
----
MISSING!
I've just realised there's something important missing. A "master" strip in the mixing desk. Suppose you wanted to apply a finaliser plug-in (maybe multiband compressor or whatever) to the whole mix - you need to do this to the master strip, otherwise you have to apply it to all strips.
----------------------
Nice work, Jo. This is a really promising start. This is a VST host that's not bloatware, it's simple to use, tracks audio and midi, and runs on my ancient hardware! Keep it up!
Cheers,
Paul.