KVR Audio

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:31 pm

diverdee wrote:I'd also recommend having a play around with live, work your way through the lessons.
I suppose it can be perceived as pattern based, it's certainly a good tool for working with loops.
That's what I liked about it, I could create loops/patterns of whatever length, trigger them via midi, set them to trigger semi-randomly, record the output, consolidate bits of it - set that to loop etc.
It's one of those apps that's fun to play with.

im gonna demo it tomorrow. Can you make a load of set length patterns and just arrange them in the 'playlist' or whatever its called in Live? Like builing a brickwall kinda thing...

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:35 pm

Kriminal wrote:
arke wrote:
I think Krim just doesn't want FL because I use it
no, i want decent support

Dunno whether they come with patterns, maybe you could take it to a local tailor to spruce up a bit.
Another possibility would be to buy a needle, some coloured thread & let your creativity run wild.
If you did well enough there may even be a market on ebay etc.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:37 pm

Kriminal wrote: Can you make a load of set length patterns and just arrange them in the 'playlist' or whatever its called in Live? Like builing a brickwall kinda thing...

Yeah. Basically in Session View (the main workspace for many folks) you have a grid of clip slots.

* Vertically these are aliogned to mixer strips which can has VST instruments, rewire, audio and MIDI fx, etc dragged/dropped onto them.
* Horizontally the clips make up "Scenes" which can correspond to intro/verse/chorus/middle 8/etc and you can launch groups of clips that have been organised into song sections if you wish. Of course you can also launch any individual clips you wish. Great for experimenting!!

Clips themselves can be MIDI (in which case the piano roll appears in the lower section of the screen (it can be full screen by dragging)... or Audio (in which case the waveform appears in the lower screen. This can be edited/quantised using "Warp Markers" - that part will simply blow you away!!

The clips can be any lenghth you wish, and triggering is completely user-defined. The tutorials will explain this in more detail.

You can experiment all you like, but then hit record and your "perfomance" will get recorded into the Arrngement View, which is much like a normal sequencer.

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:39 pm

Kriminal wrote: im gonna demo it tomorrow. Can you make a load of set length patterns and just arrange them in the 'playlist' or whatever its called in Live? Like builing a brickwall kinda thing...

Yeah.
There's numerous ways to use the session view (pattern/spreadsheet like part) & the arange view (more linear environment).
Best bet really is to take it for a test run & see if it fits you, or you fit it.
I tend to build up small patterns controlling reason devices (mostly combinators) & drum loops & then just fire them off pretty much to see what happens.
You can kinda chain patterns together, scenes & also set the probability of certain patterns triggering sequentially etc., to add a little randomness to it - then just record it in case something 'magical' happens.
Like I said it has a fun factor, which can help when one has a bit of a block.

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:44 pm

bear in mind though dave (and i DO like live a lot) ... there is no REAL equivalent in live to the orion playlist per se ...

... you CAN very easily build sets of patterns (scenes in live talk) as headquest describes but theres no way (that i know of and i stand open to correction) to easily hit play and have these trigger in the order you program (although you can do this with individual clips using what live calls follow actions) ... the way you need to do it is to set your scenes up and trigger them live while recording internally ... the track you play is then available to edit in the arrangement view as in any other sequencer ...

... so VERY flexible pattern-based composition but no playlist as such ... id still have a play with the demo though ...

slainte

rob

(edited for more detail)

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:57 pm

You can move the scenes & the individual clips around pretty much to taste in order for them to trigger sequentially (or in a specific order).
The clips within scenes can be of various lengths also, say a four bar drum loop, 7 bar bass riff & 12 bar lead - whatever - live'll keep shit tight timing wise.
Also the clips can have clip automation envelopes of different lengths - so you may have a 5 bar sample offset envelope for a four bar loop for instance - so you can have a fairly glitchy broken beat that keeps gives the impression of evolving & changing.
Using dummy envelopes (once you're in a bit deeper) creates even more fun - but that's something i've only had a little play with myself - just to get a grasp of the concept.

crimsonwarlock · Post by **crimsonwarlock** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:08 pm

Krim, just a completely different suggestion: take a look at MadTracker. Nothing beats a tracker for controlability in a pattern format and MadTracker can host VST/VSTi, has a decent mixer and can be rewired into Orion. Best of all you can download it for free (it seems that they have paid options where the software is linked to webspace iirc).

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:17 pm

Babya Logic?

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:22 pm

Not sure exactly how Orion's playlist works, so I'm unsureof exactly pHz's point there. But in terms of also playing around and experimenting with the arrangement of a track you might like to also check out how "markers" work in Ableton. You can add these anywhere in the Arrangement View timeline, as in other hosts. But the difference with Ableton is that you can jump from one marker to any other (using querty keystrokes) in real time, quantised to suit your personal preference. This is a pretty cool way to still doodle with a track even after you have done a full arangement.

There's lots in Live that you can really have fun with, but I guess the main point is that the design is so open ended. Individual users seem to come up with whole new ways of working in Ableton, simply because there's really not much that's "written in stone".

Have fun!

meister eder · Post by **meister eder** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:29 pm

pHz wrote:bear in mind though dave (and i DO like live a lot) ... there is no REAL equivalent in live to the orion playlist per se ...

... you CAN very easily build sets of patterns (scenes in live talk) as headquest describes but theres no way (that i know of and i stand open to correction) to easily hit play and have these trigger in the order you program (although you can do this with individual clips using what live calls follow actions) ... the way you need to do it is to set your scenes up and trigger them live while recording internally ... the track you play is then available to edit in the arrangement view as in any other sequencer ...

... so VERY flexible pattern-based composition but no playlist as such ... id still have a play with the demo though ...

slainte rob

(edited for more detail)

I'd consider the session view itself the playlist:
Simply do a "select all", set follow actions to "next" for all clips in one go, and you are ready to bring them into any order you like by moving around or copying scenes ('patterns') in the list.
Select a pattern (i.e. select all clips of one scene in one go by clicking in the master lane) to set the 'pattern lenght' in the follow actions menu.

Or even better: Play the pattern (scene) or any combination of clips that you want to insert next anywhere, click (not play) the scene after which it should be inserted and hit command-shift-i (Mac). Pattern creation on the fly. And no need to even touch the Arrange view if you prefer so (except once before rendering).

M'Snah · Post by **M'Snah** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:22 am

Not a host, at least not until Tequila is released, is Sonicbytes ERA. Although it started as a step sequencer, in the current release - with playlist etc - you can use it to compose entire songs.

scam_artist · Post by **scam_artist** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:45 am

just turned to Project5 myself for composing/creating, and I'm lovin it! It has it's shortfalls though, as I mentioned in this thread

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=125642

I also have Live 5, but for me Project5 v2 is more creative, I think part of the reason is because of the piano roll. I find Live's a bit cumbersome, but I got used to P5's really quickly

Also P5 has the "groove matrix" which is similar to Live's way of triggering patterns (but not as good I'll add, but still useable)

Currently, I use P5 for creating/arranging, Podium for some arranging and mixing, and Live for live stuff/lame DJ sets

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:43 am

Do you really think you can get by without WaspXT? Try 'em all, but you and I both know you'll be back. Do you really not have a paid-for license?

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:47 am

BONES wrote:Do you really not have a paid-for license?

bought the very first Pro version in 2000 (?) and i won Platinum in a comp.

rsmus7 · Post by **rsmus7** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:01 am

I would also recommend ableton,

would use it myself if I had the money to buy it.

*sold*

sold