It would be good to have a few more real world figures as to how much horsepower Receptor can manage, and at what buffer settings. The buffer setting info is v important due to latency.
For example, Ted Rackley's video blog shows him using 16 different instruments in Receptor. What buffer setting were you using, Ted? And how much power was left?
If I load up an instance of Ra on my iBook G4 - say the Djembe ensemble - then I try to play that ensemble with my V Drums, after 10-15 hits the CPU meter goes through the roof. How much more power would Receptor give me?
I'm really interested in this piece of kit, and I'm willing to spend the money if there's going to enough of a jump over my current set up, but without more real world figures, ie ' I'm able to play X amount of instances at X buffer setting, with polyphony of X notes' I can't tell if this is going to be the case...
eg with Apple computers - the acid test is how many Logic platinumverbs can be used.
More real world figures needed as to Receptor's horsepower!
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Bryan@MuseResearch Bryan@MuseResearch https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9067
- MUSEician
- 618 posts since 18 Sep, 2003 from Silicon Valley
Hi Tim
You are right, we really should do some more real world comparisons, and we will work on it. I can tell you a couple of things about your iBook, as I have the same system that I use every day.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Apple computers, the integration is really excellent, and as a result, I am much more productive. However, ALL laptops are designed for one thing: provide as much computing power as possible with minimum battery drain. As a result, most systems in the computer are optimized for low battery consumption, especially the drives that are MUCH slower than in a desktop system, and the processors typically throttle in the background to maximize battery life as well.
Any sampler that you try to run on your iBook is going to perform pretty poorly, simply because the disk subsystem performance will be quite poor in comparison to a desktop system. For example, almost laptop drives are 5400RPM versus 7200RPM for desktop systems. The CPU meter going through the roof is probably the computer freaking out due to data starvation, however that is speculation on my part.
The key to Receptor is that by having control over the hardware, control over the OS, and control over the Application, you can create vast efficiencies over a more general purpose system. You are absolutely right, the key is to create an acid test that really points to any deficiencies to a system, but for that test to be valid, it has to exist in similar efficiencies on all platforms being tested... something that is very hard to do.
That being said, we'll try to make this a higher priority moving forward...
Cheers
Bryan
You are right, we really should do some more real world comparisons, and we will work on it. I can tell you a couple of things about your iBook, as I have the same system that I use every day.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Apple computers, the integration is really excellent, and as a result, I am much more productive. However, ALL laptops are designed for one thing: provide as much computing power as possible with minimum battery drain. As a result, most systems in the computer are optimized for low battery consumption, especially the drives that are MUCH slower than in a desktop system, and the processors typically throttle in the background to maximize battery life as well.
Any sampler that you try to run on your iBook is going to perform pretty poorly, simply because the disk subsystem performance will be quite poor in comparison to a desktop system. For example, almost laptop drives are 5400RPM versus 7200RPM for desktop systems. The CPU meter going through the roof is probably the computer freaking out due to data starvation, however that is speculation on my part.
The key to Receptor is that by having control over the hardware, control over the OS, and control over the Application, you can create vast efficiencies over a more general purpose system. You are absolutely right, the key is to create an acid test that really points to any deficiencies to a system, but for that test to be valid, it has to exist in similar efficiencies on all platforms being tested... something that is very hard to do.
That being said, we'll try to make this a higher priority moving forward...
Cheers
Bryan
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 128 posts since 10 Jan, 2005
Bryan,
Thanks for replying in such detail. The hard drive that my samples are streaming from is actually a Lacie D2 7200 2 meg cache external firewire. What I don't get is that when I play something quite complex on the V Drums and trigger samples from Ra, the CPU meter (not the disc activity meter) goes through the roof - it gradually builds as more polyphony is taken up until the sound starts to break up. But when I do the same thing with EXS24 the CPU hardly moves. Obviously with EXS there are less velocity layers to each note - I know the East West stuff has about 16 samples per note on some of these patches, so perhaps this is causing the polyphony to get chewed up at a faster rate. But, I've tried turning the reserved voices down to 4 and I get almost the same result. It just seems to be the Kompakt engine - much less efficient than EXS24, which is a shame because East West's samples are fabulous. Both Kompakt and EXS are set to disc streaming, by the way.
So I'm really wanting to know if Receptor is going to give me better performance from Ra, Colossus, Stormdrum (when it's converted) etc.
Ideally, I'd like Receptor to be able to give me good playability with V Drums -> Ra, Colossus, Stormdrum, DFH C&V (which I also have), without any noticeable latency, and have some power left over for other things.
Thanks for replying in such detail. The hard drive that my samples are streaming from is actually a Lacie D2 7200 2 meg cache external firewire. What I don't get is that when I play something quite complex on the V Drums and trigger samples from Ra, the CPU meter (not the disc activity meter) goes through the roof - it gradually builds as more polyphony is taken up until the sound starts to break up. But when I do the same thing with EXS24 the CPU hardly moves. Obviously with EXS there are less velocity layers to each note - I know the East West stuff has about 16 samples per note on some of these patches, so perhaps this is causing the polyphony to get chewed up at a faster rate. But, I've tried turning the reserved voices down to 4 and I get almost the same result. It just seems to be the Kompakt engine - much less efficient than EXS24, which is a shame because East West's samples are fabulous. Both Kompakt and EXS are set to disc streaming, by the way.
So I'm really wanting to know if Receptor is going to give me better performance from Ra, Colossus, Stormdrum (when it's converted) etc.
Ideally, I'd like Receptor to be able to give me good playability with V Drums -> Ra, Colossus, Stormdrum, DFH C&V (which I also have), without any noticeable latency, and have some power left over for other things.
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Bryan@MuseResearch Bryan@MuseResearch https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9067
- MUSEician
- 618 posts since 18 Sep, 2003 from Silicon Valley
Okay, I get what you are talking about. However, I'm sticking to my guns in stating that the laptop will not be able to keep up with that much data... I think that East West recommends at least a FireWire 800 interface to run their stuff, and you probably are running a FireWire 400 interface, depending on what revision your laptop hardware is.
The best thing I can say is get your hands on a Receptor and check it out. I use both BFD and DFH with my DrumTech pads (can't stand the V drums trampoline feel... some people love if, I just can't get used to it) and I can't get a single click or pop no matter what I do, and we're talkin' buzz rolls, double stroke fills as fast as I can possibly play, etc.
If you wanted to send me a sequence that you have created that is on the hair edge, I can play it through Receptor and share with you the results... that being said, there are a LOT of adjustments you can make to the kompakt engine in terms of voices and buffering, and it is quite possible that some noodling around with that would help your situation substantially (hope I didn't just unsell you on Receptor!).
I'm personally convinced that Receptor can blow away any laptop, and I'll look forward to exploring this further with you.
All the best
Bryan
The best thing I can say is get your hands on a Receptor and check it out. I use both BFD and DFH with my DrumTech pads (can't stand the V drums trampoline feel... some people love if, I just can't get used to it) and I can't get a single click or pop no matter what I do, and we're talkin' buzz rolls, double stroke fills as fast as I can possibly play, etc.
If you wanted to send me a sequence that you have created that is on the hair edge, I can play it through Receptor and share with you the results... that being said, there are a LOT of adjustments you can make to the kompakt engine in terms of voices and buffering, and it is quite possible that some noodling around with that would help your situation substantially (hope I didn't just unsell you on Receptor!).
I'm personally convinced that Receptor can blow away any laptop, and I'll look forward to exploring this further with you.
All the best
Bryan
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- KVRist
- 44 posts since 22 Dec, 2005
timyork: I experienced a similar problem using Colossus with the polyphony maxing out...was really a note stealing issue. I found out that for note stealing to work properly in Kompakt I had to set the reserved voices to 248 then set the polyphony in the main GUI to less than 248. I set the polyphony to 64 and I have MORE than enough room to percussively bang the keyboard, do multiple glissandos and generally abuse the polyphony as best I can (I tried, all with the sustain pedal down), and I never run out of notes. Don't know if it's the same issue but was similar enough to make me post.
(V7-I)
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Bryan@MuseResearch Bryan@MuseResearch https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9067
- MUSEician
- 618 posts since 18 Sep, 2003 from Silicon Valley
This is a really excellent point, everyone should be aware that the Kontake and Kompakt engine DFD settings are changeable, and they may require adjustment to work well...
We'll try to find some optimium settings and build those in to the installer in the future, so thanks again for being this up!
Bryan
We'll try to find some optimium settings and build those in to the installer in the future, so thanks again for being this up!
Bryan
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 128 posts since 10 Jan, 2005
I've been playing around with the Kompakt settings and tried your suggestions, Pete. But actually the main thing, which I keep forgetting to correct, is that practically all the instruments in Colossus and Ra load with the filter switched on. I don't know why that is because it's completely unneccessary for the default sound because the cut-off is always up full and the res is always at zero. Anyway, switching it off takes the CPU right down. That Kompakt filter is quite hungry.
Nonetheless I'm still interested in Receptor - no you haven't 'unsold' me one, Bryan. In fact I really appreciate the fact that none of the Muse reps have so far done any hard-sell stuff, because nothing puts me off buying something more. The dealer I've been using for the majority of my gear over the past five years is pretty straight with me about what works and what doesn't so I've stuck with him.
Thanks very much for your offer to try out some MIDI files on your system, Bryan. actually Ted Rackley made the same offer, but I'm happy to send the same MIDI files to you as well, if you're into that. Let me know... I'll probably get a chance to sort something out over the weekend. It may even be just a case of holding a C major 7th chord, and doing that with as many of the same instruments as needed until the CPU overloads.
Nonetheless I'm still interested in Receptor - no you haven't 'unsold' me one, Bryan. In fact I really appreciate the fact that none of the Muse reps have so far done any hard-sell stuff, because nothing puts me off buying something more. The dealer I've been using for the majority of my gear over the past five years is pretty straight with me about what works and what doesn't so I've stuck with him.
Thanks very much for your offer to try out some MIDI files on your system, Bryan. actually Ted Rackley made the same offer, but I'm happy to send the same MIDI files to you as well, if you're into that. Let me know... I'll probably get a chance to sort something out over the weekend. It may even be just a case of holding a C major 7th chord, and doing that with as many of the same instruments as needed until the CPU overloads.
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Bryan@MuseResearch Bryan@MuseResearch https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9067
- MUSEician
- 618 posts since 18 Sep, 2003 from Silicon Valley
Sounds like a plan, I'll look forward to seeing some files from you!
Cheers
Bryan
Cheers
Bryan
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 128 posts since 10 Jan, 2005
Bryan,
I've sorted out some Receptor Power-Tests. I don't need to send MIDI files, just describe what to do. Shall I post the details?
And do you have Vanguard?
Tim
I've sorted out some Receptor Power-Tests. I don't need to send MIDI files, just describe what to do. Shall I post the details?
And do you have Vanguard?
Tim
Tim's music: https://tyork.bandcamp.com/album/flight-of-sound
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 128 posts since 10 Jan, 2005
Bryan,
I've sorted out some Receptor Power-Tests. I don't need to send MIDI files, just describe what to do. Shall I post the details?
And do you have Vanguard?
Tim
I've sorted out some Receptor Power-Tests. I don't need to send MIDI files, just describe what to do. Shall I post the details?
And do you have Vanguard?
Tim
Tim's music: https://tyork.bandcamp.com/album/flight-of-sound
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- KVRian
- 1214 posts since 2 Jun, 2004 from Québec, CANADA
I tried to find witch processor receptor is running, did not find the info on the web site, e-mailed them and got an uninformative reply. Yes how much horsepower receptor has remains a question for me.... I doubt it is as fast as my current desktop PC.... but who knows????