Amplitube 2 Jimi Hendrix RELEASED this month!!!

[Squids]

But, for the price of a few custom Hink guitar picks...

I know. Some people get stuck on the principal of things. We're all different. From a certain perspective I totally agree! If you look at it just as "pay this and you can demo the product" my response to that is "gee thanks". On the other hand, if you look at it like "Well, there's not a traditional demo because it is protected with a key... however, if you HAVE a key or want to pick one up then you are able to use the demo that works with the key"... that's different!

Maybe there just can't be a traditional demo made (not maybe, that IS the case here for reasons explained). However, it isn't hard to make a demo version available that uses the same protection scheme but just times out or has a certain number of starts. So, why not offer it? Better than nothing. Right?

But, anyway, you know I am not trying to sell YOU specifically. Each person has to do what they are comfortable with and at their own pace. I just try to help with my POV. If I can.

PS. Good work on your new tune.

[Hink]

I still seeing me on my knees crawling around looking for my key.....hey do you think I could get a Hink key?

[Hink]

btw thanx for the kind words on my song...

[beergeek]

AFAIK, most of the digi plugs for pt require the iLok...and PT LE users (MBOX) didn't get one and PT LE doesn't require one. BUT I bought one when I upgraded to PT LE7. I could have upgraded to 7 for free but they had a deal where I paid like 25 bucks and I got my choice of a couple of $400 plugs. The plugs required the iLok, so I bought it and NOW I can demo any of the digi plugs I want!

The other thing is, I have two iKeys now...got one with CSR and one with Miro. I upgraded to a dongled version of Cubase SE and didn't have to buy the dongle cuz I already had two. I saved money on the upgrade because Steinberg doesn't include the key in the package. So I have a key I don't need which means I'm not the only one, and since you only need one once the licenses are transferred, I'll bet you 25 bucks there's going to be a bunch of these keys available cheap

Would you pay 5/10/15/20 bucks to be able to demo CSR/AT2/<insert Steinberg Product here>/<insert other digital products here> ?

I think the real point is that whether it's Pace or Syncrosoft, a LOT of software is going that direction as it's apparently the best copy protection going at the moment.

While IK is the latest to do this, they certainly weren't the first...and they won't be last by a long shot.

Personally, I think investing 50 bucks for an iLok and iKey (or Steinberg key, same thing) allows you to demo really expensive high end digital audio software (and soon, other types of high end software) and that pays off. Like Squids said, you get to try out the FULL versions if you have the keys.

I guess I'm just a bit different from most because the whole dongle thing is ancient to me for high end software. In another life, I used to work with Autocad software. It had a dongle that used a parallel port and that was like 15-20 years ago. In fact, I think dongles have been around since the mid-seventies.

And so I've rambled on enough about stupid dongles....easy enough for me since for me, it's a few bucks and I don't feel anything anyone has said about them is really a down side for me. In fact, as a programmer, I understand the need to protect your hard work in any way you can.

I wish I could come up with a better scheme myself, I'd be f'in rich!

I also totally understand the anti-dongle thinking and if people are that passionate about it, stick with it, voice your opinions, boycott products, run anti-dongle campaigns or just tell people like Squids on a board like KVR...and while people are doing that, I'll be demoing audio software

Hink, please understand, I mean absolutely no disrespect for your opinion and none of what I said is directed specifically at you...a lot of people feel the same way you do and I just wanted to present my perspective...

--Rob

[Hink]

well tbh I have nothing against my ilok, it works fine and if it could be my only protection I would be just as happy as I could be...and if that's all I need to demo good stuff it's even better for me...it's just I'm so old school it bugs me...I remember a time when you really got to try something out, and then if you didn't like it you could either return it, or if you had just outgrown it you could sell it...now it seems a lot less consumer friendly...please remember that I fed my family and built my studio by working retail in music stores for years. I still think the job is to make the customer happy...in many ways technology has brought us so much...it's the little things that get lost along the way though that sometimes are sad...hell you even pay for air at gas stations now...that's progress

[A_Gruesome_Discovery]

It's funny you are saying you want to go back to hardware. You can't demo that at home either!

But you can return it if it sucks, though.

[Sascha Franck]

But, not a good idea to discuss those sensitive things on KVR really... so let's maybe not.

I think it's a very good idea to discuss such issues on KVR. Whereelse would you want to discuss it anyways?

Seriously, I would really like to try out the Waves GTR demo, but there's NO WAY I would ever by an iLok because of it. NO WAY!
I'd rather get the crack, do an image of my current system before, check it out and return to my clean system.
And no, it's defenitely not because I couldn't afford an iLok.
I just don't support these tactics.

Dongles suck and dongled demos suck even more. I *might* get another dongled product if I *really* love it, but as said, no dongled demos for me.

Oh, and yes, I *can* actually demo hardware at home. I had all the last amps, guitars and whatever I bought home with me over a weekend at least.
At Thomann (biggest european online music store) you have a full 30 days money back warranty and you don't even have to pay shipping.

Really, these are all just lame excuses. Dongles suck and I'm permanently full of fear of losing them on the road.
Seriously, I'm truly tempted to install a Logic/PC crack, because if I lose that dongle I won't be able to get a replacement.

I don't have anything against you, Squids, but it's just clear that all those wicked CP schemes have made a users life more difficult.
And in the case of Waves GTR it didn't help at all as even the dumbest imagineable internet user would find a crack in a matter of minutes (please, nobody ask me where - you'd probably be even dumber than the dumbest imagineable internet user...).

Btw, I really changed my mind about dongles vs. challenge/response. At first I thought C/R sucked because I wouldn't be able to install things on as many machines as I'd like to. But thinking about it, others than for testing purposes I never had more than two "active" music machines running, and that's perfectly possible with C/R. Which is even great as I could actually run those two machines parallely. Impossible with dongles.
And there's no risk of losing anything either.

I do understand the need for CP schemes - at least partially that is (FXpansion and the likes seem to get away fine without raping their users), but nobody should ever tell me there's a benefit for the user, such as the retarded Yellow Tools freaks are doing on their website. There's none.

Oh yes, I hear you saying "well, in case our products are protected better we will sell more". This hasn't been proven at all up to this date, it's pure speculation. The opposite could as well be true.
Gimme a product with simple CP (a serial, a keyfile, whatever) and I'll prefer it over a comparable dongled/CR'ed one any day.

And that's all there is about it for me. I *might* check the AT2 demo because I allready have a Syncrosoft dongle. In case I didn't, I wouldn't even think about it.

[Squids]

But, not a good idea to discuss those sensitive things on KVR really... so let's maybe not.

I think it's a very good idea to discuss such issues on KVR. Whereelse would you want to discuss it anyways?

I was refering to discussing the philosophy behind people justifying warez. You know as well as I that this is not something KVR is about. This ain't a "let's all revolt and use warez" kind of place.

[Sascha Franck]

I was refering to discussing the philosophy behind people justifying warez. You know as well as I that this is not something KVR is about. This ain't a "let's all revolt and use warez" kind of place.

Sure, I know. And it's one of the reasons I like KVR for.
Still, discussing ridiculous CR schemes (and in my book dongled demos pretty much qualify for that) and their possible impact on people probably using a crack instead of getting an official demo is a good thing. It *could* make some company folks think about it.
IMO it's not about any revolts either at all. Just about the stupidity of certain CP schemes.

Protecting a product using dongles might be valid. But having programmers as the Waves dudes doing the CP job is just incredibly f**ked up. Waves has a great track record of their stuff being cracked the day it's released. And the dongle didn't seem to change much about that.
So, there's one question remaining: WHY did they switch back to a dongle in the first place if they don't manage to avoid cracks floating around for even a few weeks?
It's doing harm to legit users (petential of losing the goddamn thing).
It's doing no proper protection job.
It's kinda appealing for potential users to try the crack instead of the demo.

In the end, potential buyers might just stick with the crack as they don't have to worry about losing a dongle. Again, Waves has another track record here, for their (legit) users using a cracked version, simply because former PACE versions f**ked up machines whereas the crack wouldn't (even their very own betatesters seem to use cracked versions on their actual production machines).

Just the same could happen to IKMM.
We'll see.

I just can't stand all the CP justifications anymore. Sure, seemed to be somewhat successful in case of Cubase SX 3, but others than that?

As said, we'll see.

[harmony gardens]

With all due respect Sascha, don't you think it's a little inconsistant to use warez to even test a dongled product?? I can understand a person feeling it's a matter of principle to not purchase a product with a dongle,,, but it seems to me, it's a twist of the same principles to then use a warez version of a product, even to demo it.

Why not just move on to something made by a company that has a C/P plan you feel more comfortable with??

[Hink]

I would be quite surprised to find that Sascha would use a crack tbh...but I know there is no way I would...but like I said, there are many "honest" people who would demo a crack and buy the software....and Sascha is right that people who wouldn't normally use a crack may not bother buying it or just always means to get around to it...I still do not see any good things for honest consumers coming from this....we pay the price enough already...

[Sascha Franck]

With all due respect Sascha, don't you think it's a little inconsistant to use warez to even test a dongled product??

I never said I'd do so indeed - just that I might feel tempted.

I can understand a person feeling it's a matter of principle to not purchase a product with a dongle,,, but it seems to me, it's a twist of the same principles to then use a warez version of a product, even to demo it.

I don't think there's much of a twist involved.
As said, I *would* probably use some dongled products in case I really *needed* them (I actually do). But as there's no way to decide on that without a demo, I shouldn't be forced to get the appropriate dongle just to run that very demo. I will only use any dongles as a "last resort" solution. Demos don't qualify for that, as they're useless in the end.
Just imagine I'd get the AT2 demo, decided to try it out in a live context and my dongle would be stolen on that very gig, just for the sake of getting AT2 to run at all. Even my laptop being stolen wouldn't be as bad.

Why not just move on to something made by a company that has a C/P plan you feel more comfortable with??

No worries, I am. My life setup (being the most critical thing, regarding dongles), features a simple keyfile protected host (Energy XT), a bunch of serial-only plugins (Zebra, Filterscape, FXpansion stuff, AA Reverb) and some CR protected things (Komplete 3).

But, as I am a rather picky guitarist when it comes to sound, I'm allways looking for something else as well.

[harmony gardens]

I would be quite surprised to find that Sascha would use a crack tbh...but I know there is no way I would...but like I said, there are many "honest" people who would demo a crack and buy the software....and Sascha is right that people who wouldn't normally use a crack may not bother buying it or just always means to get around to it...I still do not see any good things for honest consumers coming from this....we pay the price enough already...

As everyone who has a dongled product will agree, it's certainly not perfect, but good god, we all know what dongles are now. Everytime people want to discuss the merits of a product that has a dongle, there's always the tired old rants. It's getting old, that's all. I still think it's more productive to move on to something else, and find some peace.

[Hink]

I am only speaking of a dongle for demos...not complaining about dongles for purchased software...if soeone didn't have a dongle that could be used they might be more inclined to go with a crack for the demo...and logic suggests that some of those who did cross the line might not repent...

[AndrewSimon]

...if soeone didn't have a dongle that could be used they might be more inclined to go with a crack for the demo...and logic suggests that some of those who did cross the line might not repent...

I think you are absolutely right on this one.