Shitting on our inheritance (extended rant)

[Ildon]

Just wanted to comment on that.
In my case I think it generates more frustration than pleasure.

And seeing the amount of people reflecting on how they just scratch all the possibilities without getting anything done I think am not the only one.

At the end of the day, the issue isnt really whether you have too many possibilities or options, but whether you're disciplined enough to (not) use them.

Personally, that was always an issue for me. Most of the time I'd rather play with the toys than knuckle down, and Im damned easily distracted. But I've developed a way of working (or possibly more of a mentality) that actually fits in with that, and takes advantage of it. And the work Ive produced that Ive been most pleased with has been done since I figured that out.

I'm the exact same way. I limited myself to a single GM/GM2 box and now I'm pulling out a track almost every day. All it takes is some will power.

I have to agree with Her(can'tremembertherestofhisname) on this one, and I think he's right. I can also see why people would consider this the worst time for music, but I think that's more of a personal problem. You have the tools and it isn't anyone else's fault that you can't use them except your own.

[Jason Brian Merrill]

so many opinions, so few mute buttons

[BONES]

Pfffft. Best time to be a muso ? Really ? When canned music and corporate control have sucked the life and soul out of 99% of music ?

there you go, then - heaps of opportunity for a talented mug such as yuor good self, surely?

People sang and played real music they generated themselves.

Much as I've been doing for the past 25 years or so using synthesisers. What's your point?

And every town had a band. And the band would play at all and every event of significance in the community.

My town has hundreds and hundreds of bands.

People didn't hear canned recorded crap - they heard people they knew actually play.

Poor bastards.

And that means songs with melody, and with words that had some meaning.

Alright, alright! We get your point - the old days fairly sucked.

Now we have trans-national frothy bullshite which means nothing, is controlled by faceless corporates and is driven by a completely vaccuous sense of fashion. It's disgusting and appalling. It's too sick to even call "culture". It's a mere extruded global lowest-common-taste product.

OK, I'll take your word for it. I don't really participate myself.

OK, so a few of us can do a poor simulation of an orchestra, or record 48 tracks of electronica. So what. Faced with a tidal wave of global machine-pap where does that get the music-listenbing public or musicians ? Does it help anyone that you can hear Mozart in a shopping centre ? That's the debasement of music, not something to celebrate.

You elitist, snobby turd.

And these days can a half-decent muso make a good living from playing - NO. There were umpteen opportunities before recorded music for people who could play an instrument.

I'd say there are plenty of opportunities, you're just not looking at the full gamut.

The world used to be all about LIVE music. Played by people you knew, and playing songs and music which had some relevance to your own life.

Yeah, the late '70's and early '80's were heady days indeed, until the new fire laws f**ked it up for everyone.

It helped bind a community

I think that's cheese, or as we used to call it - "bung".

involve people, give them something everyone could share in as particpants.

Really? But I thought you said you had be able to play an instrument? I doubt too many simple working folk could afford to own one, much less pay for lessons.

VSTis are not the golden age of music. That's delusional double-think. Instead think about the role of musicians, the listening public, the interaction and relevance of music to the your own community, and the value that a brilliant musical work has in the mind of the listener.

I don't know if its the dodgy curry I just ate, but all of a sudden I feel the need to be violently ill.

I actually think that the technological development is bringing music back as a medium for (almost) everyone. Not for the few selects of the recording business. While it's bad news for the dreams of stardom, it's great for music. So maybe musicians will once again be happy amateurs or low paid (global) village entertainers. The "canned" music of commercialism will hopefully fade away. At least you have many, many options to avoid it without being deprived of quality music.

Good lord! A man with a brain.

In my case I think it generates more frustration than pleasure.
And seeing the amount of people reflecting on how they just scratch all the possibilities without getting anything done I think am not the only one.

That's just down to your own illdiscipline and/or lack of commitment. I get far more done now than I have ever been able to in the past. I am sitting here in my hotel room in Mumbai preparing for our next round of live performances without any annoying other hotel guest or having to cart around any special equipment. It just don't get any better than that.

But I get his argument that technology can get in the way of community.

Surely its most noble purpose?

Perhaps more precisely, technology allows more and more people to cram into denser and larger urban environments and lose the village or tribal culture that promotes the sort of interpersonal connectedness he's talking about.

Which is precisely why its to be encouraged.

I don't know my next door neighbor, but, at KVR, I hang out with, and even occasionally share music with, you guys who live around the world.

That's just down to you. I know all my neighbours quite well and make the effort to talk to them instead of just nodding as I pass them in the hallway.

[Ildon]

Well said, Bones.

I don't understand it. If you (as in, people in general) are so against software-based music why hang out at a forum that was originally meant for... software-based music.

[Jbravo]

I think there's a rather archaic and elitist idea that "musos" should get to be "noticed" and "respected" because they grace us with their artistic offerings - this is becoming more a thing of the past - anyone with a computer can be a recording artist these days - it's more like folk music where an artform can evolve without the constraints of commercialism and any delusions of stardom. You can still be big and well-respected if you're very good, innovative and lucky but a lot of whining about the lack of audience and getting noticed is rather pompous and akin to a stroppy two year old that wants to show off but is being ignored

[CypherOne]

admittedly it has taken me longer to realise how shit I am with all this damn software...

[whyterabbyt]

admittedly it has taken me longer to realise how shit I am with all this damn software...

You could have just asked....

[CypherOne]

yes but think if I had only a guitar to attempt music with...we would never have met. Oh hang on, that doesn't really work...

[clueless]

I don't understand it. If you (as in, people in general) are so against software-based music why hang out at a forum that was originally meant for... software-based music.

why does the Salvation Army sell "The War Cry" in pubs?

[Cabinfever]

Who's against software-based music ? I was merely arguing that this is NOT some golden age of music. It's an age where music has gone from community-based to corporate-based.

If there's a "golden age" in audio at the moment I think it's in terms of music production, not music creation, music appreciation, and certainly not musicianship.

[deaf dunderkwac]

If there's a "golden age" in audio at the moment I think it's in terms of music production, not music creation, music appreciation, and certainly not musicianship.

I don't get this statement.
Perhaps you need to elaborate?

[Hink]

Who's against software-based music ? I was merely arguing that this is NOT some golden age of music. It's an age where music has gone from community-based to corporate-based.

If there's a "golden age" in audio at the moment I think it's in terms of music production, not music creation, music appreciation, and certainly not musicianship.

I was going to stay clear of this thread, but dude that might make sense for you...surely the "golden age" applies differently to every person, and it's quite unfair to throw a blanket over it. I can more than assure that as far as musicianship is concerned it is the best it's ever been for me...and next week it will be better yet...if all you think music is worth is money, then you're dead on. But imo music has many values that far exceed the evil dollar bill, in fact I believe that money only taints good music. The value of the rest that music gives me is constantly mutiplying itself and has been for many, many years...so please speak for yourself

[Ildon]

The good folks here at KVR have made me think differently. I see lots of people who go to work regularly, have lives, etc. that have gotten into music as a hobby. If anything, I think people are beginning to take back music. To me it seems like corporations are losing the battle over music, with all the big record companies supposedly losing money. Also, with software instruments being so cheap and computers being so powerful, anyone can get into music, which is great.

The whole bit about musicianship... anyone who thinks you need to be good at a traditional instrument to make music is, and I quote Bones on this one, an idiot. I wasn't classically trained on piano, but I can play pretty well, and it doesn't really effect my music whether I use my mouse to notate a beat into my sequencer that I hear in my head or whether I play it out into my sequencer by hand. Same goes for chords. Sometimes I even work out melodies on my keyboard and notate into my sequencer because I have trouble playing to a fixed tempo. It helps me more to know the music theory and my sequencer and other gear. The fact I can perform To Zanarkand doesn't mean squat when I'm writing MIDI files for video games.

[Hink]

The computer has become an instrument in itself, those "players" who dispute this are likely to have their own agenda. Perhaps they are insecure about their abilities and feel threatened, some might have a feeling that it's unfair that they practiced so long and people who can't play a thing can pop out tunes by the dozen a day. Any way you look on it that's on them, it should have no effect on how you or I make music...and I have only been with a DAW for about 1/6 of the amount of time I've been playing guitar...it's a new place to grow for me

[Hink]

actually more like 1/8th