M-Audio have lied about the Prokeys88sx.

[thesoundsmith]

I always think 'system' when I purchase any piece of hardware or software. How will it fit in my system and does it have ALL the capabilities that I require for a specific purpose.

The Prokeys 88sz is lightweight, has decent internal meat-and-potatoes sounds, pitch bend and mod wheel, sustain and expression pedal inputs and even a sostenuto pedal input. The only thing I can't tell from looking at the pics - does it have aftertouch?

So I download the manual, and on page 27 is a midi implementation chart that shows that aftertouch is transmitted.

So I bought the board. No aftertouch - is it broken? I email M-Audio tech support, and they state "The Prokeys88sx does not have aftertouch." But the manual shows it.

Oh. No, it doesn't...

The Prokeys88sx manual shows the midi implementation for the Prokeys88, NOT the sx. Of course this is common industry practice, telling your customers whatever the hell you think will sell product, whether or not it has any correspondance to the truth. This is simply fraud unless they are willing to take the product back and publicly admit a mistake was made.

I am extremely disappointed, I have been waiting for the Axiom 61 to be released, this was to make up the upper manual of a portable live-performance rig.But I no longer can trust the company to deliver what it states in their advertising and documentation, so I cannot purchase this keyboard.

DO NOT PURCHASE M-AUDIO PRODUCTS. IF YOU MUST DO SO, BE SURE THE VENDOR WILL ALLOW YOU TO RETURN IT WHEN IT FAILS TO LIVE UP TO ITS HYPE!

Just a warning, for those who need to know - professionals who know what they require... M-Audio has become unfit for professionals.

Such a shame, they were a pretty decent company (or so I thought.)

[dasdeck]

they dont give you a refund?
then they deserve to get tortured to death by US special force or mosad, whatever works bets on them.
no serieous, we all must team up and generally stop this greedy f**king animla behaviour. A real human would say:" sorry my bad, i'll take it back and change the informations to true, I'm shure someone else will be satisfied with this keyboard" and mean it so. Social abilitys and taking risk for somone else is getting low these days i feel (but then , i'm only 23 maybe the world was never ANY different; but western mankind shurely moves backward in some regard). everything else is explainable by comparing it to wolfpack and rat behaviour.

please people!! lets be human finally. use more then your friggin instinkts!

ok, a bit OT at least as always if someone behaves shity

good luck bro!
i feel for you!(althoug this does not help mcuh)

D3CK

edit: P.S. I have M-Audio gear two, and i like the company in generall, as i have not heard any bad thigs about them (until now), and i want to make musik with my PC so bad, M-Auduio makes it very affordable (i hope that not just others have to pay the price [slavery like working conditions etc] like it is so often these days)

[herbsman]

It's not really reasonable to expect aftertouch in such a low cost controller. I just checked the manuals for both the ProKeys and sx and neither one mentions aftertouch control by key. (I have a ProKeys 88). I don't think it's proper to berate a company just because you misread a MIDI implementation chart.

That being said...where did you buy the 88sx? As far as I remember there are no keyboards available for direct purchase from M Audio...only pedals, clothing, accessories, etc. Most reputable music dealers give you a grace period for return. Not having a feature you desired should qualify you for a return.

I've never had a problem with my M Audio gear. It's bang for the buck qualities have led to multiple purchases. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience but in this case I dont think you should blame the company. The retailer is at fault and perhaps some fault lies with the end user.

[thesoundsmith]

It's not really reasonable to expect aftertouch in such a low cost controller. I just checked the manuals for both the ProKeys and sx and neither one mentions aftertouch control by key. (I have a ProKeys 88). I don't think it's proper to berate a company just because you misread a MIDI implementation chart.

I did not misread the chart. They published the chart for a different keyboard, and the manual is for the sx only, so it's not MY mistake.

I believe it is perfectly reasonable to expect any company to publish ACCURATE facts about their products. To do otherwise is called fraud. If you don't agree, let me sell you an automobile. The manual said it comes with an engine, and it does. But the car was so low priced, we figured we'd just use a lawnmower engine and just TELL them it was a 6-cylinder 4-stroke instead of two-cylinder two-stroke - after all, you can still drive it, maybe you can't take it out on the freeway like you planned, but you mostly drive around town, so who cares...

I don't think you'd go for it, and in today's political environment, corporations believe they can say or do any damn thing they choose. If you feel this is acceptable, on you and your children be the consequences, but for my family, I expect these fools to not lie. Notice I did NOT say 'tell the truth', that would be asking for too much from both corporate flacks and the English language. But a deliberate lie is cause for legal action - and yes, jail time. If there are no personal consequences, any coprorate weenie is free to hide behind 'corporate policy.' When the law holds the individuals responsible for these decisions responsible for the consequences, maybe we'll have the beginning of taking back our culture.

As far as return, it's too late, I had no reason to test the functions (after all, sustain worked, why wouldn't aftertouch? None of the internal sounds use it, so i didn't try it until trying to debug the softsynth laptop rig (VStack)) and I've been using the board as a quickie gig stage piano while waiting for the Receptor. So return is out of date.

I guess this means I no longer get to USE my gear, I have to instead go through each and every possible combinations of functions to be sure it actually works - before I can use it. This means no more gigs (too busy testiing gear) so no more income, so I starve to death.

Naaah, I'd rather sue the SOBs... Small Claims court, here I come...

[WoJ]

You wont get far.

WoJ

[thesoundsmith]

I know - but if no one takes responsibility then they just keep doing it. I guess it's considered too much these days to ask that a product actually conform to its own specs. The real problem is that I wanted their Axiom 61 for an upper manual, but I can't trust them now to actually deliver what they advertise.

[jupiter8]

88-note velocity-sensitive, semi-weighted action

This is what M-Audio says about the 88sx on their site.No mentioning aftertouch there.

It does say in the midi implemetation chart that it can transmit aftertouch messages. Why ? Because it can!!!
You can change the controller message of the modulation wheel to send aftertouch.

So sorry dude. Do your homework first before you buy another keyboard. They have'nt lied. End of story.

[thesoundsmith]

88-note velocity-sensitive, semi-weighted action

This is what M-Audio says about the 88sx on their site.No mentioning aftertouch there.

It does say in the midi implemetation chart that it can transmit aftertouch messages. Why ? Because it can!!!
You can change the controller message of the modulation wheel to send aftertouch.

So sorry dude. Do your homework first before you buy another keyboard. They have'nt lied. End of story.

Nope, can't buy it. I always do my homework before a purchase. And I have learned over the years that whatever is in a print ad is irrelevant to the truth, the spec sheet is the document that is not supposed to lie.

Mod wheel is not aftertouch, and trying to remap the mod wheel or volume slider to transmit it is a business-language weasel-word decision, not an engineering practices one. English is the language of business precisely because you CAN make vague, ambiguous statements that seem to say one thing but really are saying the opposite. But tech specs are binary, they are either true or false, with no room for waffling. Would you buy a car only to find that the gearshift was in the trunk? Oh sure, you can go backward, but first you have to get out of the car, open the trunk, shift gears and then get back in the car and back up... I don't think you would keep that car very long, even though it did have a gearshift lever.

Besides, Aftertouch is a MIDI standard protocol, transmitting on its own bandwidth (
From the Midi anufacturer's Association page:
1101nnnn 0vvvvvvv Channel Pressure (After-touch).
This message is most often sent by pressing down
on the key after it "bottoms out". This message
is different from polyphonic after-touch. Use
this message to send the single greatest
pressure value (of all the current depressed keys).
(vvvvvvv) is the pressure value.

Aftertouch is one of the standard midi messages, and is NOT a CC funtion. There is no way to legitimately remap it to a non-keyboard pressure function and consider it aftertouch. If the MI chart had stated AT was available ONLY through CC131 it would have been accurate (and I have seen MI charts that do this) but the way it is printed is a clear indication that AT is sent as C-channel3, like C0 6E. This is the standard MIDI spec, and may not be altered arbitrarily.

And their own tech support just told me I misread the chart, then corrected himself to say that HE misread the chart, and that it DOES have AT. But it doesn't, so is mine broken or does the tech support guy have his head in rectal-cranial inversion position?

[WOK]

My advice: next time go to a specialist dealer and don't buy on the internet, just because it's few bucks cheaper!
A good dealer will give you true information and take back something that doesn't work.

[droolmaster0]

88-note velocity-sensitive, semi-weighted action

This is what M-Audio says about the 88sx on their site.No mentioning aftertouch there.

It does say in the midi implemetation chart that it can transmit aftertouch messages. Why ? Because it can!!!
You can change the controller message of the modulation wheel to send aftertouch.

So sorry dude. Do your homework first before you buy another keyboard. They have'nt lied. End of story.

Based on what I read here, what you're saying is totally out of line. If indeed the mod wheel can send aftertouch, that is a technicality - if the midi implementation says that the unit can send aftertouch, a reasonable interpretation is that the aftertouch is generated in the usual way. If indeed this midi implementation refers to another keyboard, then this is, in fact, the intended meaning. In any case - it is a reasonable interpretation, and the money should be returned.

Sure - if you're suspicious that it doesn't have aftertouch, the fact that it's not mentioned elsewhere might grab your attention. But, if you see it on the midi implementation chart, I'd say that this would usually be taken to mean that the unit did transmit aftertouch in the usual manner.

[jupiter8]

The midi chart specifies which midi messages it sends. It sends aftertouch. End of story.

[droolmaster0]

The midi chart specifies which midi messages it sends. It sends aftertouch. End of story.

What an idiot. Are you a vice principal or something? You must be some kind of mindless authority figure or something, because your interpretation is so devoid of reason and compassion.

[jupiter8]

Oh, the old personal attack. What a comeback. Did'nt see that one coming. Ouch.

[jupiter8]

Instead of stupid personal attacks , could you please point to the place where M-Audio claims the ProKeys88sx has a keyboard with aftertouch.

[Uncle E]

M-Audio is a great company with high regard for customer support. They may have made a mistake in their manual but I'm sure they'll do whatever they can to help you get the keyboard returned to make up for that mistake. I don't think bad mouthing them is a productive way to deal with the situation when you haven't given them a proper opportunity to work things out.