KVR Audio

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:09 am

Amberience wrote:at least 15 seconds

How come no one mentioned this shit 2 months ago ?

fabi · Post by **fabi** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:17 am

re: friteuse

sounds frikking insane. luckily i got the korg legacy with the ms20 controller, which comes without dongle.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:33 am

[DELETED]

friteuse · Post by **friteuse** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:19 pm

fabi wrote:re: friteuse

sounds frikking insane. luckily i got the korg legacy with the ms20 controller, which comes without dongle.

Yes, I originally bought this version, but I upgraded recently to Digital Edition (with the M1 included). Now, Wavestation, MDE-FX and M1 are dongled, Polysix and MS-20 still aren't.

I urge everyone, who doesn't need the M1, not to upgrade.

(On the other hand I have to admit that the Korg LC are imho one of the best sounding plugins for a relative moderate price. I couldn't do without them...

)

grymmjack · Post by **grymmjack** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:29 pm

Mutant wrote:
Amberience wrote:at least 15 seconds
How come no one mentioned this shit 2 months ago ?

was 2 months ago the beta testers only or first buyers only?

justa guess, but maybe because they spent $300 or $150 (for the upgrade - or bought AT1 during the free upgrade window) on a dongled plugin that used a notoriously flawed protection scheme and want the bugs fixed. who can blame them? they are pissed.

my guess is they were too pissed off to say anything, and secretly probably want lots of other people to suffer along side of them, because the selfish truth is; the odds of these bugs being found and squashed is greatly increased and the amount of time to get to the problem at hand is less with a high number of users and a diversity machines.

that's my guess. or it could have been fanboy pride? i don't know. it's a shame. i personally had really great hopes for AT2. honestly though, AT1 does me just fine.

look at the AT2 thread (the 150+ page one)... look at the users there, how many were fanboys, how many are guitarists who may not know how to configure their computers properly? how many of them would YOU trust with your own box?

no offense, and myself i am a guitarist (but am a turbo-geek so not normal) and every other guitarist i've met in real life has been a total moron when it comes to computers. this isn't a hard and fast rule, as the stupid factor changes depending on the environment of meeting (working at ford the stupid factor was enormous, however walking around a guitarcenter the stupid factor was pretty low) but it's my OWN experience... i'd guess that part of the problem isn't the plugin, but the USER.

an I D ten T error (as we call them in the geekly ranks) if you will. of course guys like amberience are also in the exception, as are guys like putte and so on judging by their posts and such.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:45 pm

Bear in mind that the people who got free upgrades have had to wait TWO months for their dongles to turn up to their doorstep. Another reason as to why nothing was mentioned about the shoddy performance.

I wouldn't mind if the product was shit. I'd chalk it up to experience. But I actually like the sounds it can give me, so it doubly pisses me off that I'm having to put up with this wanky dongle performance.

grymmjack · Post by **grymmjack** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:12 pm

Amberience wrote:Bear in mind that the people who got free upgrades have had to wait TWO months for their dongles to turn up to their doorstep. Another reason as to why nothing was mentioned about the shoddy performance.

I wouldn't mind if the product was shit. I'd chalk it up to experience. But I actually like the sounds it can give me, so it doubly pisses me off that I'm having to put up with this wanky dongle performance.

indeed, that is the worst of all. good luck man.

AndrewSimon · Post by **AndrewSimon** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:37 pm

Loads in 8 seconds here.
No big deal really.
Dongle still sucks though.
Never crashed so far, I am on PC.

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:01 pm

FWIW I cannot believe that people are upset that it takes 15 seconds to load...I can empathize on crashes but sooner or later you'll probably find a conflict in the system and fix it because it's not happeneing on every system from what I can see...in fact you should of reported this issue so the developers know about it...you might end up doing some good.

As for 15 seconds...anybody that is complaining that it takes 15 seconds to load a guitar sim has obviously never owned a tube amp. Because all the tube amps I had took at least that to turn on (hint that is one of the reasons there's a switch called "stand-by"). But that's not the half of it, it is highly suggested that when you have a tube amp you give them about 30 minutes before you play for the tubes to completely warm up and "burn-in" (another reason they have a switch called "stand-by")...I simply cannot believe that one person said that it really effects their workflow (not you Amberience)....if this effects your workflow so much I suggest you sell all your gear now and take up knitting or something...because that it is just a sad, pathetic excuse for not getting work done...15 seconds hurting your workflow...what if you break a string...what are you going to then...hang yourself? 15 seconds is too long

that is pretty lame and whiny if you ask me.

grymmjack · Post by **grymmjack** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:28 pm

Hink wrote:FWIW I cannot believe that people are upset that it takes 15 seconds to load...I can empathize on crashes but sooner or later you'll probably find a conflict in the system and fix it because it's not happeneing on every system from what I can see...in fact you should of reported this issue so the developers know about it...you might end up doing some good.

As for 15 seconds...anybody that is complaining that it takes 15 seconds to load a guitar sim has obviously never owned a tube amp. Because all the tube amps I had took at least that to turn on (hint that is one of the reasons there's a switch called "stand-by"). But that's not the half of it, it is highly suggested that when you have a tube amp you give them about 30 minutes before you play for the tubes to completely warm up and "burn-in" (another reason they have a switch called "stand-by")...I simply cannot believe that one person said that it really effects their workflow (not you Amberience)....if this effects your workflow so much I suggest you sell all your gear now and take up knitting or something...because that it is just a sad, pathetic excuse for not getting work done...15 seconds hurting your workflow...what if you break a string...what are you going to then...hang yourself? 15 seconds is too long that is pretty lame and whiny if you ask me.

hink; 15 seconds could mean the difference between a good recording and a bad one.

it is definitely an unreasonable amount of time to have to wait on the computer after simply inserting an amp plugin. there is no reason for this besides what the OP assumes is dongle communication (and it seems logical to put the blame there) -- AT2 is not warming up any tubes, so there is no need for this delay. AT1 is instantaneous insert with almost no waiting. the major difference between the 2 versions: AT2 uses a dongle AT1 does not. the rest of the differences are just more of the same - different effects, different graphics, etc. so if we are to assume IK is competent (and i do indeed they make outstanding stuff) it's also safe to assume that the lessons they learned on AT1 carried over to AT2 so ideally there would be no regression in terms of quality. i don't own AT2, and never will, so i can only go by what people have said that do own it.

defending the delayed startup and calling other people whiners and and lamers over it is pretty severe dont you think, hink? amplitube is not a tube amp, and does not need this warm up time like a real tube amp, and this did not happen in the version 1 software only with version 2 and the crappy dongle that only screws things up by making them much more complicated than the old method of copy protection. the dongle is notoriously the culprit for this kind of problem in other softwares too. that aside, typically we expect this kind of delay for stuff doing heavy disk access and memory loads like samplers and such with big programs loading up, but not with an effect! i'm not a programmer of VST stuff and i do not know the intracacies of DSP so that is the extent of my logic, but it's quite reasonable to base our experience with a NEW supposedly IMPROVED product against the OLD very adored and quite humble products features and performance right?

since we all hate dongles, we blame the dongle. whether this is the culprit who knows, but since that's the big thing that changed, it seems logical. because it's hardware it communicates with the software and from what i've read of dongle schemes, they waste quite a lot of resources in the process. so lets think about this logically; AT2 = slow, uses dongle, dongles eat resources, AT1 = instant, no dongle. hrmmm... something fishy no?

if we break a string, the problem domain lies outside of the computer right? that's an entirely different animal and has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

now, here is some advice for you (re: knitting) next time please think about what you are trying to prove, and if it doesn't relate and it cannot strengthen your argument as you read it out loud to yourself and think it over, please kindly omit that stuff. if you don't own AT2, well then i guess you have deeper issues than fanboy-ism.

you can still call us whining lamers, that's almost expected protocol at kvr for any fanboy defending his love from the big bad meanies, but c'mon hink, this is not a tube amp! it's an effect plugin, probably now holding the worlds record on the most amount of time wasted just to get it going for VST effects.

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:35 pm

Hink... its not the plugin that takes 15 seconds to get its act together.. its the dongle protection... I'm not ragging on the software I'm ragging on the shit-for-brains method of protecting said software.

Still love you though man

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:47 pm

@ grymjack dude it's 15 seconds...I can assure you that I would never have 15 seconds make the difference between a good track and a bad one...if that's the case you need to do some good ol fashion practice...I'm not usually the one to call people lame whiners and such....but in this case I am calling it as I see it...it is lame to complain about 15 seconds...and no I don't have AT2, so I'm not a fanboy..in fact I am a man, not a boy (can't say the same about people who complain about 15 seconds)...so I have issues

Patience use to be a virtue, now it's an issue....while you guys whine...I'm playing because in my world 15 seconds is a tremendous step up.

BTW I don't know about you, but when I record a take I like...I spend a hell of lot more time listening to the take in deciding whether to keep it or not.

15 seconds...oh if that were my only complaint about things I would be pretty happy...

...sorry if you feel insulted...if you do feel insulted by my pointing out the extremely obvious, and it effects you that much...then I contend it is you with issues....I mean if it were 15 seconds before every take I could see that...but in just loading once? FWIW latency is a far bigger thing to complain about then that.

so no calling people whiners and lame over 15 seconds is not severe...not at all, in fact I think I exercised restraint...

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:51 pm

Amberience wrote:Hink... its not the plugin that takes 15 seconds to get its act together.. its the dongle protection... I'm not ragging on the software I'm ragging on the shit-for-brains method of protecting said software.

Still love you though man

I dont have an issue with complaining about the dongle...like I said, I can see that...but dude, how hard is it to work around 15 seconds (strap on yer guitar. plug it in and the pluggin is waiting for you)..you're reaching for another reason to hate or joking

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:02 pm

btw my ilok stuff takes at least that to warm up...and worse, when using AA I have to use the cakewalk vst adapter to open 2 of the 5. So when I refresh my fx list in AA, it has to scan and verify the pluggins twice....this easily adds 5 minutes to my refresh time (you can see what effects it's scanning)...but the thing is, I know this will happen...so I prepare for it and work around it...but it is not enough to aggravate me...crashes aggravate me, latency aggravates me, but I don't sweat the small stuff

edit: btw that only happens in AA...it might of happened the first time in FL and Sonar too...but tbh I don't remember

Amberience · Post by **Amberience** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:11 pm

I have a song with one instance of AT2 in it. I have a great idea for an extension to my drumloop. I load up XT. I load the song.

I wait.
I wait.
I wait.

I wait some more.

There it is.

What did I want to do again?

Well... I gave it two days - damn AT2 dongle already crashed