Software has NEVER ACHIEVED Decent Guitar Distortion. Nope.

[Trevor Jackson]

Okay, update:

I downloaded a free plug called Dirthead (searchable here) and ran it through a very interesting free EQ here called Posihfopit. (Also searchable). To top things off, I added a PSP Vintage warmer into the chain, but I suppose any tube-emulation signal boost would do...

The result is actually very impressive. And yes, better sounding than the oftquoted benchmark "Bad Monkey" of proverbial lore.

The Dirthead is CPU intensive but very crunchy without being digital sounding. Really nice.

I think, realistically, that combinations of different effects are the answer, rather than relying on one plug for all your headbanging needs.,.

Thanks for all the suggestions

A few semi-random observations:

Most "amp sims" just act like overloaded preamp tubes or transistors, but it's power tube distortion which give the "tube sound and feel" -- that lovely warm squishy kind of sonic mayhem. (Tube rectifiers help a lot, too.) You get a more organic tone from mixing a tranny preamp with power tubes, than by a tube preamp with a tranny power amp. Even the best sims seem a bit flat in this regard -- but they aren't bad.

Speaker distortion is a key part of any good cranked tone. Few sims even attempt it; none do it well, but a few (Line 6, at least) do a halfway decent job.

(cf. http://www.amptone.com for the above points.)

To me, most of DigiTech's products sound like DigiTech products: decent if static sims, but full of digital artifacts, much like the cymbals on a badly-encoded MP3.

Isn't the Bad Monkey basically just a Tube Screamer clone? If so, it might be worth looking at the Simulanalog and BTW TS clones for comparison. (I'd agree that while it is far from the best, it's quite decent, and a fantastic value for the money.)

VST plugs make it really easy and cheap to EQ before and after distortion, which can make a huge difference.

We're still only in the early generations of amp sims; they're quite usable now, the best is yet to come.

[bosone]

creamware made an awesome guitar amp simultaor
http://dynatube.creamware.com/

i did this small test with power metal guitar, unsig the mesaboogie simulation and marhsall jcm speaker sim


http://www.planetz.com/Pulsar/files/mus ... master.mp3

[keithm]

I agree about the speaker moddeling, thats why I use convolusion reverb with speaker cabinet IR's to filter the sound. As for power amp distorton (or compression). Every since the humble master volume control guitar sounds changed; yea bands like AC/DC still depend on power amp distortion but a lot of modern rock sounds are very pre amp orientated (!).

It's a different noise, and perhaps easier to model then genuine power amp crunch.

[Empty Uranus]

I'm still that much of a purist

So, why don't you just entirely ignore software?
And yes, that's a serious question.
I mean, there's TONS of purist solutions out there for guitar players.

'Cuz I spent all my money on the fukkin' guitar amp!

And no (to the other person) - don't f**k tubes. THey're hot and they'll leave nasty blisters.

Getting out of the studio for a second (uh oh), have y'all ever noticed that some of these modeling/SS amps like Line 6 sound pretty good until you crank them up? Just the opposite of tubes - the louder they get, the crappier they sound.

Anyway - I went out and checked a few.

X-Amp. I was impressed. Best heavy distorted sound I've heard yet. In fact, I was impressed enough to where I might use it some. No - I still couldn't get the natural balls out of it that my MkIIC has, but still - damn!

Juicy 77 - not impressed at all. Sounded like a carefully executed fart. Not good.

Chimp - Sucked. You can't get music out of a damned monkey.

Crunchdude - Pathetic.

G-Amp Classic - Not very good at all.

Alien Connections Revalver - Not really.

Mind you, I'm pretty much going into these things and trying to get Iommi right off that bat. Why? Because THOSE are the hardest sounds to get. Most of these things can get halfway decent semi-distorted sounds, but you start separating the men from the boys when you want the total juice.

I'm sure I'll get into checking into more of these, but I would NEVER spend a dime on any of them. So far, the X-amp was the best I've heard yet.....*





*This is my "opinions are like assholes" disclaimer.

[anti--hero]

i brought a non brand pedal (daphon) overdrive for 15 pounds new and it sounds better then any boutique pedals i;ve had in the past costing 150+ pounds. , i think its all voicings...diffrent pedals are voiced diffrently and tht either suits you or not...i think wht we really need for guitar amp sims and dirtboxes..is some kind of voicing control, i dont mean standard bass and treble but some kind of multi band filter thing with overlap until u get exactely the voicing you desire.

of coz, i;m all talk..how this can be implmented if at all i dont know...

[grymmjack]

these opinion threads about any given topic always end up the same.

participant A: "blahA rules! blahA kicks your dogs nuts into outerspace and then the nuts land on some distant planet eventually and are worshipped by dog nut loving aliens! then they extract the homeward-bound instinct dna gene from the dog to track it to it's origin and then the dog nut loving aliens blow up the earth with blahA! anyone who doesn't use A or love dog nuts, is a total tosser!"

participant B: "you're a tosser, blahB could blow up that alien mothership as it was coming to the earth... plus... blahB has invisible forcefields to protect everything!"

participant C: "you are all stupid little kids. watch out, i call the ground hot-lava now!"

participant D: "all blah-players are a bunch of morons. play a blib instead! blibs own your moms sweatsocks!"

repeat.

Is it that time of the month

[pdxindy]

Okay, update:

I downloaded a free plug called Dirthead (searchable here) and ran it through a very interesting free EQ here called Posihfopit. (Also searchable). To top things off, I added a PSP Vintage warmer into the chain, but I suppose any tube-emulation signal boost would do...

The result is actually very impressive. And yes, better sounding than the oftquoted benchmark "Bad Monkey" of proverbial lore.

The Dirthead is CPU intensive but very crunchy without being digital sounding. Really nice.

I think, realistically, that combinations of different effects are the answer, rather than relying on one plug for all your headbanging needs.,.

Thanks for all the suggestions

The best guitar rigs are the results of years of exerimentation. I think the software is judged harshly in that the expectation is to download some demo and immediately have it sound like the best of the best.

[stilaktive]

It's like the difference between watching porn and making love with an analog, real time, beautiful woman...

ahh but sometimes you can watch porn with some really disturbing sick crap on it which you will never be able to do with any woman anywhere.

[aciddose]

any time someone posts a thread like this it should result in immediate posting of goatse and tubgirl links

[stayne]

Here's the JCM900 by ITSELF. No Tube Screamer, no PSP Vintage Warmer, no nothing. It was the only plugin I put in the L/R guitar channels.

I dropped Spectralive and Spectra'Q on the whole thing for a bit of bite, but that's it. Actually it may sound quite shitty since I laid it down with headphones. With proper mixing and mastering, well... whatever...

www.strafed.net/stuff/jcm900.mp3

You gotta work with this stuff to get anything out of it. Nothing works like a charm out of the box.

[Z3R0T0N1N]

try juicy77, or the simulanalog guitar suite.

maybe not what you're after, but better than digitech in my humble opinion.

[anti--hero]

In danger of being "participant A" Gymmjack keke , try and get urself a secondhand Hughes and kettner tubeman , it really is the next best thing to actually micing up your rig, since MK2 , MK1 i;ve seen go for as low as £50...put a N.O.S tube in and you will never consider software amp sims ever again...altho it depends on wht kinda player you are....a primary guitarist or someone tht just wants to add a few chords and real world impossible effects/sounds you can get from the sims, which i admit can be damn fun..you could prolly combine the 2 i've found tht having a foundation good tone and not straight D.I makes sims sound more real...if u have a decent rig to begin with and if its volume and the hassle of micing up tht has made you turn to software then consider the H&K red box(which is the standalone unit of the one built into tubeman)...I'm currantly selling my tubeman cause i got of these and started recording the ext. speaker out into the computer but in all honestly i'm only doing tht cause I hate to see my amp doing nothing...anyone else notice a phenomenon of if u dont use something for a while it will break by itself...the tubeman sounded just as good if not a little better when placed in a mix context...& plus...i couldant give a hoot in hell about my neighbours...you know i;ve wrote all this and looked at the actual topic..and not sure why anymore...keke..i think your just making a statement and not asking for an answer, i agree with you..nothing like the clunk of moving air & uncontrollable feedback...dont know anything about dogs danglies tho !

[Firebird]

I find that if you work with Guitar Rig, not just the distortion but also the compression and speaker/microphone modeling you can really get great results.

[Trevor Jackson]

Well, power amp crunch is all about moving air. I don't know how you model that in digits -- though I'm sure one of you guys could tell me. Preamp crunch is about distorting the signal before it reaches the speaker, so yes, I suppose that would be much easier to model.

I agree about the speaker moddeling, thats why I use convolusion reverb with speaker cabinet IR's to filter the sound. As for power amp distorton (or compression). Every since the humble master volume control guitar sounds changed; yea bands like AC/DC still depend on power amp distortion but a lot of modern rock sounds are very pre amp orientated (!).

It's a different noise, and perhaps easier to model then genuine power amp crunch.

[Sascha Franck]

And no (to the other person) - don't f**k tubes. THey're hot and they'll leave nasty blisters.

Getting out of the studio for a second (uh oh), have y'all ever noticed that some of these modeling/SS amps like Line 6 sound pretty good until you crank them up? Just the opposite of tubes - the louder they get, the crappier they sound.

Defenitely! I've been using all sorts of simulated stuff for commercial live gigs (which is what these things are great at), but whenever I used them with a banging band, they just refuse to properly cut through. Fine for detailed chord work, fine for subtle lines and all that - but whenever you need some truly kicking sound, they fall short rather quickly.

Alien Connections Revalver - Not really.

There's gonna be a new version out one day (no idea when). Leaves a very good impression so far...