Software has NEVER ACHIEVED Decent Guitar Distortion. Nope.

[Mutant]

Man, a vst with some kind of active (dynamic) speaker emulation would be the ticket.

Cortex OldCab and Mda Combo

[Hink]

no when I said listen to Brian May I meant listen to him...I mean I can hear his tone anytime I want...I want to listen t him. I imagine it would be quite riveting, he is quite intelligent. I'd be contenet just to ask a few questions and listen to what he has to say....

You know - so many people look at me with a strange look when I say "you'd never believe how much the sound has to do with the way you hold your pick"..... He's a prime example.

Shhhhhhhh - don't let that get out.

actually Brian May was the inspiration behind my making brass picks, which I use less than 50% of the time.



I tried different coins including a penny (which I figured was the U.S. equivalent of what he uses)...however I dont think there is a universal "right" way to hold a pick. That's not saying that I do not agree with you, I'm just saying that varies a lot from one person to another, and from one style to another. For me picking is done with extreme finesse, but I also feel it's one of the most important parts of playing. How you attack the strings and where you attack them are quite important. But not always how you hold the pick, many players don't even use a pick. I worked very hard many, many years ago to learn to squeal without a pick...it's amazing how that strengthened my ability to do squeals with the pick.

In some ways the guitar is this extremely precise instrument and in other ways it's totally an illogical sloppy instrument. Picking laterally along the strings you find that it doesn't take much distance in either direction to make large tonal changes (and pitch changes with pinching out the squeals). How you hold the pick is should be based on what works best for you (ever see how EVH holds a pick?) Myself I grip the pick very close to the tip most of the time and expose more of the tip when needed. However, the pick is only a small part of it...of course there is palm muting which kind of obvious to begin with. But also what else you're doing with your picking hand can create interesting tones.

Like for example, it's easy to know where the natural harmonics lie across the neck and you have frets to mark where they are. But those natural harmonics can be achieved right on top of the body as well...they only thing is you have to have to memorize where...but you can't memorize by looking, it has to be by feel. I think as much dynamics (or more if you're good at it) comes from just that...how you attack the strings and where. Many guitarists I have played with pick at the same spot all the time...in fact you can see it on their strings and sometimes the bodies as well. Myself I am equally adept at picking anywhere between about the 17th fret back to up tight against the bridge and my right hand travels between yhe end of the neck and the bridge.

Picking on the neck is reserved for specific circumstances, but is a cool technique. For instance in some tunings bending the higher strings together two at a time and picking, fingering and bending fast on the neck (which means following the strings as you bend) creates some incredible tones. Also, countering the pick direction on a single string with finger vibrato (picking on the neck) creates some nice sounds as well as speed illusions...the former (bending two strings together while picking on the neck) is a technique I picked watching and listening to Gary Moore...done proper it's over the top but sounds great, done poorly it's nothing but string masturbation. Of course there are times when picking further down the neck is cool too.

Another cool technique is to train you middle and ring finger (the pinky I usually reserve for the volume knob) for the "way over done" tapping. You won't find many examples of me tapping in the tradition sense. Instead I like very slow taps combined with fairly deep bends (again it means following the string with your tapping finger), it creates an inside out kind of feel (the end of my song Plight of a dreamer as it fades has this).

so please forgive when I say

you'd never believe how much the sound has to do with the way you hold your pick

is very accurate but also very generalized and a tad bit of a simplistic explanation, there's just far more to picking than just the grip. Often I find that many teachers do not teach the value of the right hand enough...we wont even get into the principles and benefits of back picking, and what back picking can do to change the mood of a chord or a composition.



FWIW I can whip out examples of these techniques at will if anyone is confused I'll gladly post up some examples.

Great post. I agree. Three English guitarists I can think of right off the bat that use just the very tip end of the pick are May, Iommi, and Gilmour. All 3 have killer tones. As you stated, it's WHERE you do that as well. Those three guys tend to pick up around the top pickup. They are also getting some of their sound in how the string hits the thumb after it hits the pick. If I'm double picking - obviously I leave more out. Other than that, I sort of do it like the ones mentioned.

That being said, when I go over to a Strat, I absolutely LOVE the trebley, gritty Blackmore sound. Nobody uses that sound enough. I get pretty tired of all the top pickup, SRV sounds, as it's just too common. I'll pick a Strat right down there ON the bridge - just to make it as bright and irritating as possible.

Other guitarists that pick high with just a TINY bit of pick - Billy Gibbons for one, and Barry Bailey of the Atlanta Rhythm Section.

I wouldn't know what teachers do or don't do, as I'm 100% self-taught (hell - I don't even tune to standard), but over the years, you start figgerin' out these little things.

just read that last part...not sure how I missed it, but on my page is one song that has one guitar part in standard tuning...all the rest is in various tunings...standard tuning was fun for 25 years, but about ten years ago (got my first gi-tar July 18th 1971) I started up with alternate tunings and haven't looked back...btw Billy Gibbons was another who used a coin and inspired the brass picks as well...

[guitarzan]

Man, a vst with some kind of active (dynamic) speaker emulation would be the ticket.

Cortex OldCab and Mda Combo

Thanks! I already have these on hand so I'll give them a try tonight. I was actually thinking of a stand alone speaker emulation VST, but I have no qualms about running a preamp, or even an amp sim into another amp sim. I do it all the time.

[Mutant]

Man, a vst with some kind of active (dynamic) speaker emulation would be the ticket.

Cortex OldCab and Mda Combo

Thanks! I already have these on hand so I'll give them a try tonight. I was actually thinking of a stand alone speaker emulation VST, but I have no qualms about running a preamp, or even an amp sim into another amp sim. I do it all the time.

OldCab is only a speaker cabinet sim - AFAIK there's no preamp/amp simulation in it.

[Muzik 4 Machines]

I was actually thinking of a stand alone speaker emulation VST, ...

I soooo want that to plug the output of my MASS(attenuator) into so it sounds "great",not just "ok"

[guitarzan]

I was actually thinking of a stand alone speaker emulation VST, ...

I soooo want that to plug the output of my MASS(attenuator) into so it sounds "great",not just "ok"

Yeah, it just seems like a full-tilt speaker/cab/mic emulation plug would go over HUGE! Most guitar players have a bunch of preamps, amps, etc. and speaker emulation (I'm talking emulation now, let's not get all riled up ) is one area where digital definately has the edge over analog. It would even work great with a lot of other VSTs.

[Lunch Money]

I dunno... it seems to me that the real benefit of the whole amp purist attitude is that you have a real amp and a real room and a real mic. You take that out of the equation and you're back to the same old "emulation isn't as good" argument, but from a different perspective.

Personally, I have no problem whatsoever taking "workarounds" to accomplish a goal... for example, using something like MDA Combo during tracking, and then switching it out for a convolution reverb with an appropriate impulse. Some people argue that you feed off what you hear, and I agree. But only to a certain extent. When tracking vocals, we often track with one reverb and then switch to another later, according to our tastes, or finding the right 'verb to help everything sit in the mix.

I don't know why some guitarists are so precious about their tone. I mean frig, you can sit there and play (and play WELL) without your guitar even plugged in, so don't tell me that if you hear MOST of your tone (very subtle difference in the cab/room sound or whatnot) you can't still rip the same solo? Starts to smack of the mystical or the voodoo. We all have fingers, we all know how to fret, and we all know how to play what we want to play even when we don't have our ideal tone. Why so precious?

Greg

[Amberience]

Because its a time tested tradition that guitarists are wankers, that's why.

[zeoy]

Because its a time tested tradition that guitarists are wankers, that's why.

why don't we do something to change this tradition?
I'm checking most of the ampsim threads and I mostly stay silent because I've seen all these again and again. Istead of arguing if software is already 'there' or not why dont we start a new thread where everybody can post clips of what they feel is a good tone (for a specific genre maybe) and how they were made. We can have both hardware and software made clips or a mixed approach. I remember I started a similar thread long time ago (cant even bother to search for it) but a lot of things have changed since then.
It 'd be great if many of the well known guitar players (you know who you are) round here could contribute something.
If we can do something like that while keeping it polite and avoiding personal atacks it would be a great source for everybody and we will have something to point at when asked if 'software can achieve good distortion' etc.
If you think it's worth it let's discuss it a bit here to fix the details.

[Amberience]

Hey man, I'm a guitar player, but I'm not really interested in these topics all that much. Every now and then its good to have a bit of a chin wag about tone, but generally I think its a case of subjectivity.

[Kriminal]

bullshit topic title by a no brainer no doubt.....try the AD-1.....totally rox

[The Chase]

[Jason Brian Merrill]

Because its a time tested tradition that guitarists are wankers, that's why.

[BertKoor]

[Krakatau]

Because its a time tested tradition that guitarists are wankers, that's why.

Yeah, and on that ground womens are mandolin experts

music smooth the world, no doubt ( especially plucked string instruments as we can notice )


Make mewzik not whore