The next version will also contain Chebyshev and Bessel filters to satisfy all your needs...asseca wrote:Thanks for the Butterworth filtes, really handy for steep low pass filtering ...
Electri-Q v1.5.4 released
-
Christian Budde Christian Budde https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25572
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1538 posts since 14 May, 2004 from Europe
-
- KVRAF
- 3846 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Underworld
"Complete EQ" is an understatement for Electri-Q. 
However, it needs "refinement" now that it's full of features, but a few more filters here and there don't hurt 
.
btw. I think the new sorting of filters [shift+right mb] should be the default IMO and there's lack of more gentle 12db HPF/LPF. I use 12db high-pass most of the time, because it's gentle and sounds more natural, 24db only occasionally and 36db almost never.
Hurray for Bessel and Chebyshev filters!
Cheers!
However, it needs "refinement" now that it's full of features, but a few more filters here and there don't hurt .btw. I think the new sorting of filters [shift+right mb] should be the default IMO and there's lack of more gentle 12db HPF/LPF. I use 12db high-pass most of the time, because it's gentle and sounds more natural, 24db only occasionally and 36db almost never.
Hurray for Bessel and Chebyshev filters!
Cheers!
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti
-
- KVRAF
- 37408 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
What's the difference between all these filters?
-
- KVRAF
- 3846 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Underworld
Different curve/response [called the crossover], and phase response. Although differences are minor, in static HPF/LPF you usually cannot change Q factor, so it's almost like having different Q's. Butterworth HPF takes away more bass than Bessel, because it's crossover curve isn't so steep as Bessel's. I prefer Butterworth 6/12/24db on higher frequency sounds that don't need too much bass but need smoother phase response, and Bessel for lower frequency sounds like bass or low strings for example.aMUSEd wrote:What's the difference between all these filters?
Cheers!
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti
-
Christian Budde Christian Budde https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25572
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1538 posts since 14 May, 2004 from Europe
Here is a comparison:aMUSEd wrote:What's the difference between all these filters?
Red=Chebyshev (Type I, 0.5dB Ripple), Deep Blue=Butterworth, Light Blue=Bessel
All filters are normalized to have -3dB at the cutoff frequency.
P.S.: In the lower right corner you can see that in case of bessel filters the curve is additionally smashed, because it gets near nyquist. I accidentially made the measurements in digital economy, so without oversampling...
-
- KVRAF
- 3846 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Underworld
Strange. If you didn't tell us I'd say Butterworth is light blue and Bessel deep blue.
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti
-
Christian Budde Christian Budde https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25572
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1538 posts since 14 May, 2004 from Europe
It's definitely like I wrote. The benefit of the bessel filter is that you have a constant group delay in the passband, whereas the other have not. Here's a plot:DuX wrote:Strange. If you didn't tell us I'd say Butterworth is light blue and Bessel deep blue.
(sorry not the best quality, the upper is Chebyshev, then Butterworth and the constant one is Bessel)
-
- KVRist
- 54 posts since 11 Jan, 2006 from Geneva
Christian Budde wrote:
I have an idea but I have absolutely no skill to do it.. Christian, what about implementing RIAA curves filters for vinyl ? A real one (why not ?)
Maybe an idea for a new plugin, an historic RIAA EQ curve characteristics based corection, the parameters should be tweakable in the range of electronic components tolerances for each poles (RC tolerance compensation fine tune by x-y knob) + separate & switchable coarse tuning.
well graphically, it could be a single flat line containing an handle per pole , but each handle span will be restricted by natural tolerances.
there would be as many "adjustable flat riaa lines" as they was designed through time.
After Analog, digital, screaming, linear & Maximum phase, could it be a RIAA mode?
I am pretty sure that a lot of people would rave on this thing ...
but I fell this one a lot time consumming to code for little dB changes.
If the idea of tolerance compensation is too weak, swaping the used riaa preamp curve by one more matched to the actual vinyl pressing is perhaps more interessting.
The next version will also contain Chebyshev and Bessel filters to satisfy all your needs...
I have an idea but I have absolutely no skill to do it.. Christian, what about implementing RIAA curves filters for vinyl ? A real one (why not ?
)Maybe an idea for a new plugin, an historic RIAA EQ curve characteristics based corection, the parameters should be tweakable in the range of electronic components tolerances for each poles (RC tolerance compensation fine tune by x-y knob) + separate & switchable coarse tuning.
well graphically, it could be a single flat line containing an handle per pole , but each handle span will be restricted by natural tolerances.
there would be as many "adjustable flat riaa lines" as they was designed through time.
After Analog, digital, screaming, linear & Maximum phase, could it be a RIAA mode?
I am pretty sure that a lot of people would rave on this thing ...
but I fell this one a lot time consumming to code for little dB changes.
If the idea of tolerance compensation is too weak, swaping the used riaa preamp curve by one more matched to the actual vinyl pressing is perhaps more interessting.
-
Christian Budde Christian Budde https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25572
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1538 posts since 14 May, 2004 from Europe
I've already read some papers and circuit diagrams within the last days. It's not that hard to do, but the interface could be a problem here.sophonomoth wrote:Christian, what about implementing RIAA curves filters for vinyl ? A real one (why not ?
Right now there are other things to do. The plugin needs a general cleanup and some customers are already waiting for version 1.6
I put your idea about RIAA on the ToDo-list, but most probably I won't find any time to implement it until september/october.
Christian
-
- KVRAF
- 3846 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from Underworld
That's more like it [the Chebyshev, Butterworth and Bessel response curves].
[the Chebyshev, Butterworth and Bessel response curves].It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jiddu Krishnamurti
-
- KVRist
- 54 posts since 11 Jan, 2006 from Geneva
After some reflections, the pure riaa curve isn't at all of prime importance as the ones who would use it are designers wanting to make a real ultra low noise linear amp for phono cartridge.
It is too specific, on the other hand, the inexistance of this (these) normalised curve in the forme of ultra precice plugin doesn' tempt DIY persons to design such amp, most of phono preamp use active filtering, causing some amount of distortions.
I remember an old audiophile telling me all the benefits of passive filtering. VST way may comes even more acurate. Definitely, not for anybody, but a new riaa dedicated plugin
(there is none for the moment) may be an idea as an another...
Christian, I am VERY impressed by your work on Electri-Q.
Can you tell me why the phase analysis of the Maximum Phase mode looks so "fuzzy" in your analyser? (I know it to be exact on square wave measurment), any way to improve the visualisation?
best regards,
Matyas
edit:
It is too specific, on the other hand, the inexistance of this (these) normalised curve in the forme of ultra precice plugin doesn' tempt DIY persons to design such amp, most of phono preamp use active filtering, causing some amount of distortions.
I remember an old audiophile telling me all the benefits of passive filtering. VST way may comes even more acurate. Definitely, not for anybody, but a new riaa dedicated plugin
(there is none for the moment) may be an idea as an another...
Christian, I am VERY impressed by your work on Electri-Q.
Can you tell me why the phase analysis of the Maximum Phase mode looks so "fuzzy" in your analyser? (I know it to be exact on square wave measurment), any way to improve the visualisation?
best regards,
Matyas
edit:
I agree !DuX wrote:That's more like it
-
Christian Budde Christian Budde https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25572
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1538 posts since 14 May, 2004 from Europe
inverse RIAA curves aren't that complicated. I may make such a plugin if I have enough free time. Should take about an afternoon I think.sophonomoth wrote:After some reflections, the pure riaa curve isn't at all of prime importance as the ones who would use it are designers wanting to make a real ultra low noise linear amp for phono cartridge.
It is too specific, on the other hand, the inexistance of this (these) normalised curve in the forme of ultra precice plugin doesn' tempt DIY persons to design such amp, most of phono preamp use active filtering, causing some amount of distortions.
I remember an old audiophile telling me all the benefits of passive filtering. VST way may comes even more acurate. Definitely, not for anybody, but a new riaa dedicated plugin
(there is none for the moment) may be an idea as an another...
Thank you. It's not yet perfect but it improves on every release. Btw. the next version will also contain higher order (steeper) shelving filters. Here's a comparison:sophonomoth wrote:Christian, I am VERY impressed by your work on Electri-Q.
(Red=Normal 2nd order, Blue=New 8th order)
It may not be useful for everything, but it makes the EQ more complete.
I guess that's because you have an older version, in which the delay compensation doesn't work properly. Try [CTRL]+[ALT]+0 maybe that helps, maybe not.sophonomoth wrote:Can you tell me why the phase analysis of the Maximum Phase mode looks so "fuzzy" in your analyser? (I know it to be exact on square wave measurment), any way to improve the visualisation?
Kind regards,
Christian
-
Christian Budde Christian Budde https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25572
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1538 posts since 14 May, 2004 from Europe
Hello together,
I've just uploaded a public beta of version 1.5.5 here. We havn't done all of our quality control tests, but this version will be most likely the version 1.5.5 within the next days.
Changes:
- Some new filter types (Butterworth, Chebyshev [Type 1/2])
- Popup menu customizable (you can for example remove the 500ms limitation, ->right click on the border as in posihfopit)
- New shortcut 'd' which is the same as 'Del.' to delete a band
More filter types are already done, but they are not rocket stable, so we decided not to include them.
Christian
I've just uploaded a public beta of version 1.5.5 here. We havn't done all of our quality control tests, but this version will be most likely the version 1.5.5 within the next days.
Changes:
- Some new filter types (Butterworth, Chebyshev [Type 1/2])
- Popup menu customizable (you can for example remove the 500ms limitation, ->right click on the border as in posihfopit)
- New shortcut 'd' which is the same as 'Del.' to delete a band
More filter types are already done, but they are not rocket stable, so we decided not to include them.
Christian