Intonation Issues with Stringed Instruments

[markanini]

Don't be puzzled. This is extremely simple. Don't let the noisefloor of this thread distract you from the obvious cause of your problem.

How can you say that when you only listened to 5 secs?

I can understand that most of you guys might have more more technical than musical focus, but I can't understand how you can let yourselfs be that musically blindfolded. Common people, its music were dealing with here, not only audio technology!

Trevor, I listened carefully to your song and enjoyed it.
Even if you remove all effects you will still have that dissonant F.
It's up to you, I won't be losing any sleep over this.

[james0tucson]

Lose the pedal on the mandolin. Don't gild that particular lilly.
Too perfect of intonation would be jarringly unnatural for this style of music. I think it needs a washtub bass, personally, and maybe even a tambourine.

[Amberience]

Sometimes dissonance is WANTED or can be a nice mistake, Mark. When I heard the track I didn't hear anything displeasing, so I guess this is one of those eye of the beholder things.

[james0tucson]

Sometimes dissonance is WANTED or can be a nice mistake, Mark. When I heard the track I didn't hear anything displeasing, so I guess this is one of those eye of the beholder things.

The notes in question do lead a melodic figure that I suspect only sounds wrong against the delayed mandolin. I want to hear this clean. I also want to hear a female vocal line with a meaningful lyric. And I still think it could use a washtub bass.

[markanini]

Sometimes dissonance is WANTED or can be a nice mistake, Mark. When I heard the track I didn't hear anything displeasing, so I guess this is one of those eye of the beholder things.

Youre telling me?
I absolutely agree, but there's a difference beetween intentional dissonace and unintentional dissonace. In this context I cant see why there should be an F in the bass of an an E major chord.
Why do you think I said this, if not to help Trevor out with his problem?

Sure that F note isnt up front in the mix so it might be hard to detect if your not listening closely, but it makes you go "huh?". It even took a moment for me to figure out that the dissonace came from the guitar. But man, since it's music were working on after all I find it strange that none of you could detect and out of key note and instead came up with technical explainations, which wont let Trevor make his production sound the way he want's to.
I'm sure theres no modulation effect in the world that can change the pitch a half step.
Especially if it's not on the problematic track.

[Amberience]

He asked about intonation, not the notes he was playing. That's why no one even looked for it.

I'm listening now, and I CAN hear the F note at 0:44, 1:29, 2:37.. it definitely IS a note that is dissonant and it probably should be cleaned up, but it DOES sound INTENTIONAL.

But to my ears I cannot hear anything else in the song that sounds poor. The F note doesn't even sound poor to me, its jars me for a split second, but then the song ambles along nicely.

I get the impression that Trevor was on about something else though, because that F note shouldn't cause this much fuss.

[Amberience]

But man, since it's music were working on after all I find it strange that none of you could detect and out of key note and instead came up with technical explainations, which wont let Trevor make his production sound the way he want's to.
I'm sure theres no modulation effect in the world that can change the pitch a half step.
Especially if it's not on the problematic track.

And dude... please drop the accusational tone, maybe its the way I'm reading it, but it sounds like you're subtley trying to call us all stupid c**ts.

[P.T.]

I just take that note as a passing tone. Maybe that is what he wants. It bothered me a bit also, but isn't a real problem.

What bothered me was the effect on the mandolin that made it sound like it wasn't a part of the song.

[lfm]

In this context I cant see why there should be an F in the bass of an an E major chord.
Why do you think I said this, if not to help Trevor out with his problem?

Sure that F note isnt up front in the mix so it might be hard to detect if your not listening closely, but it makes you go "huh?". It even took a moment for me to figure out that the dissonace came from the guitar. But man, since it's music were working on after all I find it strange that none of you could detect and out of key note and instead came up with technical explainations, which wont let Trevor make his production sound the way he want's to.

Perhaps Trevor should ask you how to color his chords in his arrangements in the future, and run everything with strict major or minor chords as well.

This is not what Trevor was asking about, a few dissonant notes. It was a general issue about the sounding mix which most of us understood.

[lfm]

You don't hear people using exciters or tube effects, which work by creating new partialls, complaining about intonation.

Well, the difference between a shit exciter and a good one, is how it does this. Just adding stuff to every frequency component in the mix will create mud only. This is very simple to do mathematically.

So the good exciter is smart, and does an analysis what would be good musical partials to add, and how much. That's the wonderful things about look ahead what is coming, and adjust everything in a smart way, dynamically through the entire mix.

So yes, I hear people complain about bad exciters. About every time they look for some other exciter product than they already got. Many call themself warmifiers, but few are chosen.

[markanini]

And dude... please drop the accusational tone, maybe its the way I'm reading it, but it sounds like you're subtley trying to call us all stupid c**ts.

Well yeah it pisses me off when people that only listend to a only few seconds of the track claim to know the problem and call any other suggestions, which makes it mine in this case, noise.

Perhaps Trevor should ask you how to color his chords in his arrangements in the future, and run everything with strict major or minor chords as well.

This is not what Trevor was asking about, a few dissonant notes. It was a general issue about the sounding mix which most of us understood.

Once again this might make me seem like smart ass, buy strict major and minor chords and colored chords arent the same thing. And simply sticking to minor and major chords doesnt gurantee that you stay in key. The point is that you dont have to know all about music theory and know all the musical terms to make nice music. Trevor made a nice track but was not sure about what was wrong with it, and I spent some time listening carefully to the track and tried to help him out.
In the end it's Trevors decision what to do, I'm not gonna debate any more in this thread, as you seem so very keen to use BS technical explainations AKA "No one ever used wah on a mandolin and neither should you".

[Amberience]

No one has said anything remotely bad about your suggestions, you're the only belligerent one in this thread.

[Lagrange]

How can you say that when you only listened to 5 secs?

I can understand that most of you guys might have more more technical than musical focus, but I can't understand how you can let yourselfs be that musically blindfolded. Common people, its music were dealing with here, not only audio technology!

I've come to find that this is the nature of KVR.. better off saying oh oh I'm belligerent me please!

C

[Amberience]

This is a f**king PLUGIN website for a godamn start, so it makes sense that most people are into audio technology! You pricks.

[VicDiesel]

I'm puzzled. I didn't play any wrong notes (to my ear) but you're the second person to hear a few.

The guitar note at 0:45 and whenever it repeats.

But, Fer! Chrise! Sakes! let that bass player play something else than along with the guitar melody!!! It's driving my crazy.

Victor.