Studiophonik articulations ?

[fahl5]

I for one would rather buy a simpler version of SP sooner and upgrade later to the gold plated version when it's available.

Ironically that may STILL be the case!

I thought, what we are waiting for is less a question of developing new software features, but the sample-content, which relies on the upcoming infinit series.
So a sooner released "simpler" Version would be the unique software, just without any samples - It seems realy a bit ironical if that "may STILL be the case!"
At least I would rather wait to get the "gold plated version" including the samples

[Squids]

What I mean is that while we (as usual) have gone beyond the original spec announced and made it bigger and better than originally planned there's also quite a bit MORE that we can do but won't because it will go on forever so there's the possibility of a deluxe upgrade or expansions down the road...not to mention features in software that can come in updates along the way as well. Bottom line is we're trying to get it finished even though it is a cool product that could go on forever.

[kronkite]

Thanks Squids. My point is simply that it was announced 2 years ago and so at some point the perfect is the enemy of the good.

[Squids]

I get ya.

[telebunke]

For SP would this make sense aswell in the possibility to change instantly to alternative Samples like the Instrumentalist change its techniques while playing as it would make sense to make the applied fx available while playing, like the guitarist, or Bassplayer does it with his footpedals.

I suggest, that SR takes a look at the automatic sample switching as implemeted in the Vienna Instruments.
If SP was just to deliver what they deliver with their VI Basic mode, then that would be darn cool.
For example, their basic mode recognises fast and long notes an switches to appropriate
samples automatically.


tele

[Squids]

Studiophonik isn't designed that way. It's meant to be a Studio Instrument workstation with a large variety of drums, guitars, basses and more with some extra studio mixing capabilities all within one module for the price one would pay usually for just ONE of those instrument categories (in the case of Vienna Instruments, it's much less money and a completely different thing). There's always going to be cool tricks and things you can do from different sound products based on different engines. Keep in mind Studiophonik is still based on the SampleTank engine (even if it is based on a slightly more advanced ST engine like Philharmonik is). But, we do all have an idea of what to expect from that standpoint. So being realistic I wouldn't expect "mind-reading switching techniques". But, what you CAN look forward to is more variety of brand insruments and more detailed multisampling of them in the SampleTank format with a variety of extra mixing options such as pick up switching/mixing, direct and overhead mixing on drums as well as a variety of performance articulations like you have in Philharmonik.

I should point out though that it is not done with the approach of streaming instruments that switch articulations. You just couldn't do a full workstation with this much variety of instruments AND have each instrument be 1-2 gigabytes or the size of the whole product would be 10-20 times larger and the price would be quite a bit higher as well. I guess you could say our "Drum, Guitar and Bass" answer to something like Vienna Instruments would be the Infinite Instrument Series. They pool from many of the same sessions as Studiophonik but they are larger instruments and broken down into 3 or more drum titles and other collections each potentially around the price of Studiophonik itself, if that helps one see the relative workstation vs. individual instrument focus difference.

Studiophonik is more about the combination of instruments within a self-contained studio effect processing environment. Quickest thing I know of to create a virtual band with authentic sounds that can get pretty darn close to the real thing, especially in terms of the character of the instruments.

[fahl5]

I guess you could say our "Drum, Guitar and Bass" answer to something like Vienna Instruments would be the Infinite Instrument Series.

Sounds good to, so will those infinite Instruments consequently be made for a different Sampleengine Kontakt 2, Gigastudio 3 or a totaly new SR/IK Infinite-Engine.

Up to now there doesnt seem to be realy convincing high end electric Guitar Sample-Libraries. After beeing quite fascinated from the Demo-Video of the 30GB Prominy LPC which realy suggests very much live performance variety, I found it quite deceptive after reading most of the Mp3-Demos were made with NI-Guitar-Rig.

So I thought, this is what IK/SR defenitly are apt to do much better, since they have done not only a very useable sampleengine, but a powerful Ampsimulation and some quite tastful Sample-Libraries aswell. So just put together all your strenght and all is nice.

Studiophonik is more about the combination of instruments within a self-contained studio effect processing environment.

Its true the Studioenvironment is another quite intresting aspect of SP, so is there any chance to use it with thoses upcoming detailed versatile infinite Instruments to?
Steffen

[Squids]

The Infinite Instrument Series is based on streaming samplers like Kontakt 2 and Giga. It's not a new engine, but rather creative use of existing ones that allow us to release our larger sized instruments that have more articulations and complex programming. A very PRO set up WOULD be to have the upcoming Infinite Guitars for Electric and also something like AmpliTube 2 full to run it through. It'd cost more to have that than Studiophonik but you'd have more of what you are saying in terms of "the best SR material" and "the best IK effects".

However, for half the price of that or less you'll be able to get Studiophonik and have at least SOME of that (instruments in between the current size in ST/SS2 vs. Infinite Instruments) and the AmpliTube 1 amps and effects that are in the ST engine, then of course for that same amount of money you are also geting all of the drums, acoustic guitars, basses, keys etc.

Again, Studiophonik is a studio/band instrument workstation. Workstations by nature are about variety and song building blocks. As far as SampleTank engine based products this would be the most advanced one yet in terms of sound development (and also some new software features only partially revealed at this point). Whereas Infinite Instrument Series is more focused on individual high end instrument collections that are larger in size and higher in price to have the same variety of instruments as you would in a workstation plug-in.

[Yossarian]

Up to now there doesnt seem to be realy convincing high end electric Guitar Sample-Libraries. After beeing quite fascinated from the Demo-Video of the 30GB Prominy LPC which realy suggests very much live performance variety, I found it quite deceptive after reading most of the Mp3-Demos were made with NI-Guitar-Rig.

Could you elaborate on this, I'm not sure I get your point. In what way is it deceptive? Prominy clearly states in the demo details what effects were used. Are you saying that the use of effects would somehow detract from the live performance variety of the library?

To me, it would seem the opposite is true - the fewer effects that are imprinted in the samples, the wider range of tones can be achieved by using separate FX plugins. Isn't this how most people would be using a high end guitar sample library, i.e. use a relatively clean sample set and run it through an amp sim or other FX plugins?

The more I learn about these upcoming SR instruments, the more I'm beginning to feel that the Infinite Instrument series is more up my alley than Studiophonik, though there's something to be said for having everything in one plugin. I'm assuming the Infinite instruments will be out after SP rather than before?

/Yoss

[Squids]

Yeah, I don't think it would be deceptive unless they didn't explain that what you are hearing is the product being run through effects that aren't included. But, I agree that it is most flexible to have the dry instrument that you can run through infinite effects and Infinite Instruments will definitely have that (maybe a little of both wet and dry since they are larger libraries).

Which will be first Infinite or Studiophonik? That's a good question. On the one hand you would think Studiophonik because there is less to do per instrument...(even if there is a LOT still!). But then there's also more instruments and even though we are pretty close (we're at the horns and some of the keys now) we have also prepared Infinite Drums (and what was called "Session" has now become the MAIN title and the Vintage and Custom sets will come later almost like expansion libraries... there's plenty of vintage and custom though in the main set). If I had to guess it might be like this:

Infinite Drums
Studiophonik
Infinite Guitars (which hasn't even been officially announced yet btw)

That's in terms of release but there's a chance Studiophonik could be first. It also depends on IK's production schedule as well since the software part comes from IK. It's all coming together and I have been using early versions of Studiophonik for a while in music making and it is a wonderful tool. Super super super fast to get a virtual band happening.

[beergeek]

If I had to guess it might be like this:

Infinite Drums
Studiophonik
Infinite Guitars (which hasn't even been officially announced yet btw)

No...don't make me buy Real Guitar or Chris Hein Guitars if I can do it with Kontakt 2 and Infinite Guitars

I mean, "INFINITE GUITARS" sounds like your basic wet dream to me..

[fahl5]

Could you elaborate on this, I'm not sure I get your point. In what way is it deceptive? Prominy clearly states in the demo details what effects were used. Are you saying that the use of effects would somehow detract from the live performance variety of the library?

Prominy sells its LesPaulCustom-Library also in two seperate parts " LPC Electric Clean Guitar" and "LPC Electric Distortion Guitar" each for 350 Bucks. So if you hear lots of their mp3's with wonderful distorted guitar sound, you become intrested, but if you see nearly none of them except a few backgroundchords derive from the "LPC Electric Distortion Guitar" I personally wonder, why they, sell an seemingling at least equivalent distortion-sample-Library, if they themself nearly dont dare to use it even in their own product-demos and prefer blowing all their clean samples throu another thirdparty fx. Thats for me a bit deceptive.

To me, it would seem the opposite is true - the fewer effects that are imprinted in the samples, the wider range of tones can be achieved by using separate FX plugins. Isn't this how most people would be using a high end guitar sample library, i.e. use a relatively clean sample set and run it through an amp sim or other FX plugins?

No opposit at all. I am also not looking for for samples with all fx's already recorded this would be obviously the most inflexible solution.

But I think, what prominy needs a thirdparty product for to sell their sounds, could SR/IK do all by their own skills.

And as far Guitar Amp-simulations are quite reasonable applied to electric guitarsounds and the electric guitarsounds highly dependent on an apropriate processing (which is true for bass-sounds either), why shouldn't IK/SR combine samples and apropriate processing-unit in one on both sides optimized and easier useable product?

This was also how I partly understood the Idea of studiophonik, since I also dont regard SS for instance as a lowbudget application, but a wonderful elaborate sample-plug for the whole vintage synth stuff you can imagine, why should'nt SP makes things easier and more versatile at once for Guitar, Bass, Drums and Horns that way ?

[Yossarian]

Prominy sells its LesPaulCustom-Library also in two seperate parts " LPC Electric Clean Guitar" and "LPC Electric Distortion Guitar" each for 350 Bucks. So if you hear lots of their mp3's with wonderful distorted guitar sound, you become intrested, but if you see nearly none of them except a few backgroundchords derive from the "LPC Electric Distortion Guitar" I personally wonder, why they, sell an seemingling at least equivalent distortion-sample-Library, if they themself nearly dont dare to use it even in their own product-demos and prefer blowing all their clean samples throu another thirdparty fx. Thats for me a bit deceptive.

Sure, they could put up some more demos of the distorted library. Have you asked Akihito? He seems like a very responsive developer. Still don't see the deception, tho.

And as far Guitar Amp-simulations are quite reasonable applied to electric guitarsounds and the electric guitarsounds highly dependent on an apropriate processing (which is true for bass-sounds either), why shouldn't IK/SR combine samples and apropriate processing-unit in one on both sides optimized and easier useable product?

No one's saying they shouldn't. I just don't see the need for Prominy to supply the amp sim if they want to concentrate on the sound design when there are plenty of good solutions already available. To have both the sample set and amp sim in the same plugin could be nice in some situations but personally I prefer to have the freedom to combine sample sets and amp sims as I like. I certainly don't see it as a weakness that LPC doesn't come with its own FX.

This was also how I partly understood the Idea of studiophonik, since I also dont regard SS for instance as a lowbudget application, but a wonderful elaborate sample-plug for the whole vintage synth stuff you can imagine, why should'nt SP makes things easier and more versatile at once for Guitar, Bass, Drums and Horns that way ?

Like I said, an all-in-one solution has its advantages so I agree on the easy part - but more versatile? I'd have to disagree there.

/Yoss

[Squids]

Well surely if one doesn't regard SS2 as a low budget application then neither is Studiophonik since it is more advanced.

[fahl5]

Well surely if one doesn't regard SS2 as a low budget application then neither is Studiophonik since it is more advanced.

I'm shure it will be