Samplematic: Now SFZ export

[learjeff]

Sonicfire, that doesn't help if your line input isn't connected to the sound mapper (as most quality aftermarket cards aren't). All you've succededed in doing is shifting the audio from one unrecordable stream to a different one.

I'm looking forward to trying the beta, but I have stuff going on like life, and you know how it is.

[learjeff]

OK, I had a couple minutes to spare and tried it, though with no success: it only records noise. I may have something set up wrong. But here are a few quick suggestions & bugs I noticed.

1) MIDI output selection didn't always work correctly -- first time, selecting MS wavetable synth caused it to use my MIDI device (Midisport Duo). Selecting Midisport Duo didn't seem to play anything, but it could have been going into a MIDIYOKE channel. When I ran a second time, it worked properly.

2) Test MIDI didn't quite work correctly. When I select MS Wavetable, it stops the note when I release the button. But when I use the Midisport to my synth, releasing the button didn't send a note-off message and the note persisted. Minor issue, should be easy to fix: I suspect you're just closing the device, which has no effect on an external synth. I see that releasing the button isn't sending a MIDI event (light on Midisport doesn't show it).

3) Once I click "Start", "Velocity" button fades and I can't change my mind without quitting and restarting. Minor nuisance only.

4) The file browser doesn't work correctly. To select where to create my file, I have to manually create a file there first. Try it with an empty folder and you'll see what I mean.

5) You have C3 as middle C. There is no standard, so you should indicate somewhere what you're using. Most stuff uses C4 as Middle C, but I've seen it as C3, C4, and C6. I suggest you just add "Middle C" after C3 in the choice list.

6) It always samples one more octave than what I choose.

7) There should be an audio signal level meter so that we can set recording levels. For use with a softsynth (that is, something we can't play a key on), the Test MIDI button would be more useful for this purpose if we could select the note it plays.

8 ) I sometimes see warning messages at the bottom, but they're pushed off the end so I can't read them. And I can't stretch the window. And they disappear when it's done. A scrolling window of responses would be better, expecially if resizable.

9) When selecting velocity layers, the defaults should be evenly divided rather than exponentially clustered at low velocities. I suggest that whenever a new box is checked, that box and all unchecked boxes between the last checked box and the new one should be evenly divided. This will seem a little confusing to folks at first, but it will yield the best results when someone picks N layers right off the bat, and it won't reassign numbers to boxes carefully set if a new lower layer is added.

Later I'll see if I can get it to record actual audio. Most likely that's a problem at my end, but a record level meter would be REALLY helpful to sort this kind of thing out.

Finally, you say that for the demo, 50% noise is added to the samples, about -40dB. I don't understand that: -40dB is about 1% of full scale. What's the 50% mean?

[kara]

Sonicfire, I tought you would be interested in this : http://www.maz-sound.com/goto_product_28

Just to help positioning your product in an existing market.

Kara

[sonicfire]

1) MIDI output selection didn't always work correctly -- first time, selecting MS wavetable synth caused it to use my MIDI device (Midisport Duo). Selecting Midisport Duo didn't seem to play anything, but it could have been going into a MIDIYOKE channel. When I ran a second time, it worked properly.

Mhh, cant confirm. Can you make a screenshot of the list?

2) Test MIDI didn't quite work correctly. When I select MS Wavetable, it stops the note when I release the button. But when I use the Midisport to my synth, releasing the button didn't send a note-off message and the note persisted. Minor issue, should be easy to fix: I suspect you're just closing the device, which has no effect on an external synth. I see that releasing the button isn't sending a MIDI event (light on Midisport doesn't show it).

Cant confirm, it DOES send a midi-note off, never had hanging notes here, no matter which device i've choosen

3) Once I click "Start", "Velocity" button fades and I can't change my mind without quitting and restarting. Minor nuisance only.

Of course, you should first setup the layers and then start the recording. It wouldn't be good if i would allow to fiddle with these settings while recording (?)

4) The file browser doesn't work correctly. To select where to create my file, I have to manually create a file there first. Try it with an empty folder and you'll see what I mean.

Cant confirm ... you click on the "..." enter a name and there you go?? Or do you mean it should display a default path first, so that you dont have to click on "..."? (So that you can just type in the name in the textfield left to it) ?

5) You have C3 as middle C. There is no standard, so you should indicate somewhere what you're using. Most stuff uses C4 as Middle C, but I've seen it as C3, C4, and C6. I suggest you just add "Middle C" after C3 in the choice list.

You can always look at the note number when recording or use your ears But yes, thats dissapointing that everyone has a different "standard"

6) It always samples one more octave than what I choose.

Doesn't happen here... (?) Can anybody else confirm?

7) There should be an audio signal level meter so that we can set recording levels. For use with a softsynth (that is, something we can't play a key on), the Test MIDI button would be more useful for this purpose if we could select the note it plays.

You're right about the Testbutton, will think about that, and yes, a Level meter is planned for one of the next betas!

8 ) I sometimes see warning messages at the bottom, but they're pushed off the end so I can't read them. And I can't stretch the window. And they disappear when it's done. A scrolling window of responses would be better, expecially if resizable.

Sounds like a good idea. Noted!

9) When selecting velocity layers, the defaults should be evenly divided rather than exponentially clustered at low velocities. I suggest that whenever a new box is checked, that box and all unchecked boxes between the last checked box and the new one should be evenly divided. This will seem a little confusing to folks at first, but it will yield the best results when someone picks N layers right off the bat, and it won't reassign numbers to boxes carefully set if a new lower layer is added.

Later I'll see if I can get it to record actual audio. Most likely that's a problem at my end, but a record level meter would be REALLY helpful to sort this kind of thing out.

That will come in the next beta!

Finally, you say that for the demo, 50% noise is added to the samples, about -40dB. I don't understand that: -40dB is about 1% of full scale. What's the 50% mean?

I was wrong with that, initially adding noise at a 50% offset per sample was plannend, but it changed it to something like 5%

[sonicfire]

Sonicfire, I tought you would be interested in this : http://www.maz-sound.com/goto_product_28

Just to help positioning your product in an existing market.

Kara

Yes, i know of this tool...

EDIT: Tried the demo ... first time it doesnt looped my samples, second try: some samples are looped . other not ... third try, saved me an "empty folder" with no file in it ... thanks.

[learjeff]

1) MIDI output selection didn't always work correctly -- first time, selecting MS wavetable synth caused it to use my MIDI device (Midisport Duo). Selecting Midisport Duo didn't seem to play anything, but it could have been going into a MIDIYOKE channel. When I ran a second time, it worked properly.

Mhh, cant confirm. Can you make a screenshot of the list?

Nothing wrong with the list, which contains the following:
* Out-A USB MidiSport 2x2
* Out-B USB MidiSport 2x
* MIDI Yoke NT: 1
...
* MIDI Yoke NT: 8
* USB Uno MIDI Out
* Microsoft GS Wavetable

I'm not surprised you can't duplicate it. I'll be interested to see if it happens to me again. But it was persistent that first run, even if I switched devices several times. Bugs like this are a nightmare to find. I wouldn't worry about it unless it comes up again.

2) Test MIDI didn't quite work correctly. When I select MS Wavetable, it stops the note when I release the button. But when I use the Midisport to my synth, releasing the button didn't send a note-off message and the note persisted. Minor issue, should be easy to fix: I suspect you're just closing the device, which has no effect on an external synth. I see that releasing the button isn't sending a MIDI event (light on Midisport doesn't show it).

Cant confirm, it DOES send a midi-note off, never had hanging notes here, no matter which device i've choosen

Well, it definitely sends a note-off for MIDI Yoke channels, but not for either MidiSport 2x2 or MidiSport Uno. AHA -- it does come through SOMETIMES (rarely -- I just now did it over 100 times and it happened once). Perhaps you're closing the device rather than leaving it open, and for slower devices it kills the event in progress.

3) Once I click "Start", "Velocity" button fades and I can't change my mind without quitting and restarting. Minor nuisance only.

Of course, you should first setup the layers and then start the recording. It wouldn't be good if i would allow to fiddle with these settings while recording (?)

Good point. I should have pointed out that it remains faded out after recording completes. (I admit I did hit Stop once or twice.) I agree that it should blank out during recording.

4) The file browser doesn't work correctly. To select where to create my file, I have to manually create a file there first. Try it with an empty folder and you'll see what I mean.

Cant confirm ... you click on the "..." enter a name and there you go?? Or do you mean it should display a default path first, so that you dont have to click on "..."? (So that you can just type in the name in the textfield left to it) ?

My bad. Never mind! (Doh!)

6) It always samples one more octave than what I choose.

Doesn't happen here... (?) Can anybody else confirm?

To be more specific, when I chose "1", it sampled two octaves, etc. However, I can't duplicate this now.

Cheers,
Jeff

[learjeff]

Update: failure to record was definitely my fault, wrong buttons on my mixer for gosh sake. Back to digital recording 101 for me!

I find the automatic looping options unsuitable for instruments with strong decay, like piano. When I create loops, they're usually very small compared to the sample. I also don't think I'd find an arbitrary loop point cross fade good enough for my purposes, but others may. For that purpose, you should allow any percentage to be selected for the cross fade.

I did a little fiddling around with an autocorrelation algorithm, for pitch detection. I suspect it could also be used to find loop points. Let me give it some thought and I'll see if I can come up with something, and if I can, I'll share it. Samplematic has the advantage that it knows where the release starts (if release was sampled), and presumably that's the neighborhood of where to start searching for a loop.

I bet there's also a way using FFT's, but that's currently over my head. I recently got out my copy of Hamming's "Digital Filters" and couldn't get past the chapter on "assumed math background". So I got a book, "Differential Equations Demystified". It's really a "for dummies" book, but I think the publisher didn't go for "dummies" and "diff EQ" in the same title. Well, I ground out when I realized I'd forgotten a bit too much calculus in the last 30 years, so now I'm studying my Calc book -- amazing I still have it, but I knew this day would come! Fortunately, the calc book makes sense.

[learjeff]

Hey, just thought of something. Samplematic could calculate your round trip latency (MIDI out, synth's MIDI in, synth's audio out, soundcard's audio in). Might be interesting to know. Just an idea, and one that's of little value with built-in soundcards and standard interface. But with ASIO it might be interesting.

BTW, if you want to work on developing code for ASIO drivers, just install ASIO4ALL, which sticks an ASIO driver over your builtin, and gives you low latency to boot! No need to spend bux on a fancy soundcard.

Cheers
Jeff

[kara]

Any news on the soundfont export ?

kara

[sonicfire]

Any news on the soundfont export ?

kara

Sorry, not at the moment - i'm busy full-time with uploading Spacehawk files, answering mails and all that...

[audiojunkie]

1) MIDI output selection didn't always work correctly -- first time, selecting MS wavetable synth caused it to use my MIDI device (Midisport Duo). Selecting Midisport Duo didn't seem to play anything, but it could have been going into a MIDIYOKE channel. When I ran a second time, it worked properly.

Mhh, cant confirm. Can you make a screenshot of the list?

2) Test MIDI didn't quite work correctly. When I select MS Wavetable, it stops the note when I release the button. But when I use the Midisport to my synth, releasing the button didn't send a note-off message and the note persisted. Minor issue, should be easy to fix: I suspect you're just closing the device, which has no effect on an external synth. I see that releasing the button isn't sending a MIDI event (light on Midisport doesn't show it).

Cant confirm, it DOES send a midi-note off, never had hanging notes here, no matter which device i've choosen

3) Once I click "Start", "Velocity" button fades and I can't change my mind without quitting and restarting. Minor nuisance only.

Of course, you should first setup the layers and then start the recording. It wouldn't be good if i would allow to fiddle with these settings while recording (?)

4) The file browser doesn't work correctly. To select where to create my file, I have to manually create a file there first. Try it with an empty folder and you'll see what I mean.

Cant confirm ... you click on the "..." enter a name and there you go?? Or do you mean it should display a default path first, so that you dont have to click on "..."? (So that you can just type in the name in the textfield left to it) ?

5) You have C3 as middle C. There is no standard, so you should indicate somewhere what you're using. Most stuff uses C4 as Middle C, but I've seen it as C3, C4, and C6. I suggest you just add "Middle C" after C3 in the choice list.

You can always look at the note number when recording or use your ears But yes, thats dissapointing that everyone has a different "standard"

6) It always samples one more octave than what I choose.

Doesn't happen here... (?) Can anybody else confirm?

7) There should be an audio signal level meter so that we can set recording levels. For use with a softsynth (that is, something we can't play a key on), the Test MIDI button would be more useful for this purpose if we could select the note it plays.

You're right about the Testbutton, will think about that, and yes, a Level meter is planned for one of the next betas!

8 ) I sometimes see warning messages at the bottom, but they're pushed off the end so I can't read them. And I can't stretch the window. And they disappear when it's done. A scrolling window of responses would be better, expecially if resizable.

Sounds like a good idea. Noted!

9) When selecting velocity layers, the defaults should be evenly divided rather than exponentially clustered at low velocities. I suggest that whenever a new box is checked, that box and all unchecked boxes between the last checked box and the new one should be evenly divided. This will seem a little confusing to folks at first, but it will yield the best results when someone picks N layers right off the bat, and it won't reassign numbers to boxes carefully set if a new lower layer is added.

Later I'll see if I can get it to record actual audio. Most likely that's a problem at my end, but a record level meter would be REALLY helpful to sort this kind of thing out.

That will come in the next beta!

Finally, you say that for the demo, 50% noise is added to the samples, about -40dB. I don't understand that: -40dB is about 1% of full scale. What's the 50% mean?

I was wrong with that, initially adding noise at a 50% offset per sample was plannend, but it changed it to something like 5%

I thought I would point out that it is not important what the root note is called (C4, C5, etc.) What IS important is that the MIDI standard uses note 60. If you use that, then the root note will be correct, regardless.

--Sean

[audiojunkie]

Then again, after re-reading the message, I think the discussion was about the root-note being labeled, and not what I was previously talking about. I've seen note 60 (the middle C) usually labelled C4 or C5, depending on whether the MIDI spec is starting with C0 or C1.

--Sean

[learjeff]

Right. In this case, it's labeled C3. I would label it "Middle C" and label the others whatever. Something like this:

C0
C1
C2
Middle C
C4
C5

But I find that C4 is the most common, since it's based on a standard 88-key grand piano keyboard, with C1 as the lowest C on the keyboard.

[audiojunkie]

Sounds logical to me.

[hexman]

Interesting program!

Im testing it with a Yamaha S90. The Midi Channel in the SampleMatic prog is -1 off from my Yamaha. IE if I select channel 1 on the SampleMatic, the Yamaha must be set to channel 2.

Also I get out of range error in samplematic if I select channel 16 - are you off a bit? (pun intended).

Can't get it to actually record anything. The "Devices" has Input as "Wave Mapper" that is grayed out. I have a MAudio Delta 1010LT but can figure out how to select anything from SampleMatic to be able to record. Tried changing the 1010LT card settings but nothing...
edit: read the manual, duh. - Samplematic records only what you've select within the
Windows Soundmixer "Recording"-settings. (via Wave Mapper)

looks promising though - would love to be able to sample my old SY77 hardware and use it in DimensionPro (SFZ format).