Just crashed on my laptop & took Tracktion with it...Seaside Music wrote:Is anybody getting the demo to work? I tried it with both Samplitude 8.31 and vstHost, and neither one will even initialize the trial version.
Pianoteq - Looks Like new Modelled Piano
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- KVRian
- 1222 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
pethu.se/music-releases
Not a part of the loudness war!
Not a part of the loudness war!
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- KVRist
- 151 posts since 19 Nov, 2004
I've been trying out the demo, and it's an interesting plug, to be sure.
I'm prepared to take back what I said about it not being 'entirely' modelled, since there is enough flexibility that it may well be so.
However, the basic sound of the piano is not convincing enough to my ears, although it is at least playable, which is more than can be said for many vst pianos.
It's pretty good fun tweaking the parameters, but the updates are slow and noisy, meaning realtime morphing is out of the question for now - a shame, since this would have made it far more interesting.
Certainly a worthy effort, but personally I wouldn't choose this over a sample-based product if I wanted to create a convincing recording of a classical piece.YMMV
I'm prepared to take back what I said about it not being 'entirely' modelled, since there is enough flexibility that it may well be so.
However, the basic sound of the piano is not convincing enough to my ears, although it is at least playable, which is more than can be said for many vst pianos.
It's pretty good fun tweaking the parameters, but the updates are slow and noisy, meaning realtime morphing is out of the question for now - a shame, since this would have made it far more interesting.
Certainly a worthy effort, but personally I wouldn't choose this over a sample-based product if I wanted to create a convincing recording of a classical piece.YMMV
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- KVRist
- 467 posts since 21 Feb, 2005
I'm afraid I have to agree. It sounds synthesized. And what is with that weird phasing going on? Is that how they got the "resonance? It sounds like a really bad stereo enhancer.Cyrosis wrote:this sounds really bad, sorry guysI'll give em an A for effort, and a D for execution
(I have the trial, so I'm not just judging on the mp3's)
I'm going to read through the manual and keep playing with the demo, but this thing ain't happening so far. The organo (or whatever the last preset is) would be useful though. Not $320 useful, but it's a nice sound.
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- KVRist
- 151 posts since 19 Nov, 2004
On the positive side - CPU consumption is good and startup time is very fast.
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- KVRian
- 873 posts since 16 Dec, 2004
I'll give you that, but thats kind of like saying "well atleast this "Taste-o-Foot" TV dinner cooked fast and was easy to eat"phattslagg wrote:On the positive side - CPU consumption is good and startup time is very fast.
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- KVRian
- 1222 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
Well, got it up and running in Cantabile on my desktop... I maintain it's actually quite good. For close listening, soften all hammers, reduce the cutoff of the soundboard, reduce some of the other special FX, if listening through headphones may sure you are in the proper output mode... my main niggles so far is the highest octaves sounds artificial, and there's not enough soft/harsh variation between playing pp and playing ff, even after fiddling with respective hammer "hardness"...
Overall, I'm a bit less inclined to immediately bin all my sample libraries and rush out to buy this, though.
Overall, I'm a bit less inclined to immediately bin all my sample libraries and rush out to buy this, though.
pethu.se/music-releases
Not a part of the loudness war!
Not a part of the loudness war!
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- KVRian
- 866 posts since 30 Jul, 2004
I know a little about the specific algorithms involved, a fair amount about real-time modeling in general, and above all I use PM synths a lot and have a reasonable feel for how much load they put on a CPU for a given level of complexity.Josmoker wrote:Just out of interest - is it because no one has properly done it before or do you actually know something about this?kevink wrote:I would not be shocked if it actually sounded pretty good when played without the damper pedal, but the intermodulation of a real piano with the mutes off the strings is fabulously rich and not something I'd expect to see handled in real time by a mere 2-4 core processor system.
Last edited by kevink on Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 1985 posts since 14 Mar, 2006
Wow. I have to say, I'm quite impressed. This is v1, I'm sure it will be improved. This is in uncertain terms the best piano I have ever heard outside of a large sample lib. I agree with some others..that it does sound a bit not quite there compared to some of the better libs, but man...for what it is..frankly I'm blown away. I think some better presets would go a long way to make it more impressive. None of the current presets include EQ settings, for example.
I had a LOAD of fun hitting the random button to create non-real-world instruments that had real world characteristics, like a cross between a marimba and a piano. Wow, I could see myself using that on film scores to add time bite to certain lines..though..if I'm ever lucky enough to have my scores recorded by a real orchestra I don't know what I'd do. Ha ha..
I think this piano is leaps and bounds better than anything you find built into a hardware keyboard such as S90, etc.. And like I said, I think we're just scratching the surface. Let's see some better presets. The other criticism I have is that everything I did really sounded like the same piano tweaked around. But this might be a matter of more playing with settings. When I play a Steinway or a Yamaha or a Mason Hamlin, I can hear a distinct difference in the tone. Not sure how to get that out of a modeler, but it would be interesting to see them try to get those settings and include them as presets. Might simply be an EQ issue.
One other criticism I have..the vel curve display is great. but I would really like to see visually the effect of changing the vel curve, not only hear it. Right now you see a red line with the actual vel played from the keyboard, but i would rather adjust the curve and see the visual red line display the result of the vel curve being applied to it. That is much more effective way to look at the screen and see as I hit the note what the curve is doing to it.
Other than that, I must say, I'm kind of excited about this product and I will be watching it. I don't think it replaces thingslike Ivory or some other libs yet. Not quite. But man, its way better than I thought it would be and takes no space on the HD. It did consume a lot of CPU though...up to 50% at times on my pc (2.5ghz P4). Most of the time it hovered around 20-25% CPU. Which is still a little high compared to some other stuff..but not really so bad.
I could easily see myself using this on my laptop for live gigging. but all that being said..the price is also kind of high for me at this point. If I have to only buy one piano product, this probably will not be it at that pricing. If the presets get better..to the point of challenging the sampled libs more closely...I may feel differently. I need to do a proper A/B comparison too...on a weighted controller, etc.. So we'll see. What I like most about this is the fact that there is a huge sonic possibilty of sound here for piano people and some of the non-real-world piano-ish sounds I got out of it with stacatto sound were sounds I could see layered under other sounds in a mix to add a lot of attack to a blended sound in a very organic way. I could really use that a lot, but not for $300.
I had a LOAD of fun hitting the random button to create non-real-world instruments that had real world characteristics, like a cross between a marimba and a piano. Wow, I could see myself using that on film scores to add time bite to certain lines..though..if I'm ever lucky enough to have my scores recorded by a real orchestra I don't know what I'd do. Ha ha..
I think this piano is leaps and bounds better than anything you find built into a hardware keyboard such as S90, etc.. And like I said, I think we're just scratching the surface. Let's see some better presets. The other criticism I have is that everything I did really sounded like the same piano tweaked around. But this might be a matter of more playing with settings. When I play a Steinway or a Yamaha or a Mason Hamlin, I can hear a distinct difference in the tone. Not sure how to get that out of a modeler, but it would be interesting to see them try to get those settings and include them as presets. Might simply be an EQ issue.
One other criticism I have..the vel curve display is great. but I would really like to see visually the effect of changing the vel curve, not only hear it. Right now you see a red line with the actual vel played from the keyboard, but i would rather adjust the curve and see the visual red line display the result of the vel curve being applied to it. That is much more effective way to look at the screen and see as I hit the note what the curve is doing to it.
Other than that, I must say, I'm kind of excited about this product and I will be watching it. I don't think it replaces thingslike Ivory or some other libs yet. Not quite. But man, its way better than I thought it would be and takes no space on the HD. It did consume a lot of CPU though...up to 50% at times on my pc (2.5ghz P4). Most of the time it hovered around 20-25% CPU. Which is still a little high compared to some other stuff..but not really so bad.
I could easily see myself using this on my laptop for live gigging. but all that being said..the price is also kind of high for me at this point. If I have to only buy one piano product, this probably will not be it at that pricing. If the presets get better..to the point of challenging the sampled libs more closely...I may feel differently. I need to do a proper A/B comparison too...on a weighted controller, etc.. So we'll see. What I like most about this is the fact that there is a huge sonic possibilty of sound here for piano people and some of the non-real-world piano-ish sounds I got out of it with stacatto sound were sounds I could see layered under other sounds in a mix to add a lot of attack to a blended sound in a very organic way. I could really use that a lot, but not for $300.
MacPro 5,1 12core x 3.46ghz-96gb MacOS 12.2 (opencore), X32+AES16e-50
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- KVRian
- 866 posts since 30 Jul, 2004
Just tried the demo, and it ain't bad. It does *not* capture accoustic intermodulation of strings, and the modeling of how the hammer deforms with increasing velocity is oversimplified, but even though it wouldn't fool anyone listening closely into thinking it was a real piano, it's at least enjoyable to play with a proper hammer action controller - as are just about all PM instruments.
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- Banned
- 316 posts since 3 Apr, 2006
lolCyrosis wrote:I'll give you that, but thats kind of like saying "well atleast this "Taste-o-Foot" TV dinner cooked fast and was easy to eat"phattslagg wrote:On the positive side - CPU consumption is good and startup time is very fast.
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- Banned
- 316 posts since 3 Apr, 2006
Just curious, how do the Mason & Hamlin, Yamaha, and Bosendorfer compare to a Steinway? I almost bought a used M&H for $5000 myself, but settled on a Clavinova instead. I haven't completely ruled out purchasing an acoustic sometime in the future, however.Dewdman42 wrote:Wow. I have to say, I'm quite impressed. This is v1, I'm sure it will be improved. This is in uncertain terms the best piano I have ever heard outside of a large sample lib. I agree with some others..that it does sound a bit not quite there compared to some of the better libs, but man...for what it is..frankly I'm blown away. I think some better presets would go a long way to make it more impressive. None of the current presets include EQ settings, for example.
I had a LOAD of fun hitting the random button to create non-real-world instruments that had real world characteristics, like a cross between a marimba and a piano. Wow, I could see myself using that on film scores to add time bite to certain lines..though..if I'm ever lucky enough to have my scores recorded by a real orchestra I don't know what I'd do. Ha ha..
I think this piano is leaps and bounds better than anything you find built into a hardware keyboard such as S90, etc.. And like I said, I think we're just scratching the surface. Let's see some better presets. The other criticism I have is that everything I did really sounded like the same piano tweaked around. But this might be a matter of more playing with settings. When I play a Steinway or a Yamaha or a Mason Hamlin, I can hear a distinct difference in the tone. Not sure how to get that out of a modeler, but it would be interesting to see them try to get those settings and include them as presets. Might simply be an EQ issue.
One other criticism I have..the vel curve display is great. but I would really like to see visually the effect of changing the vel curve, not only hear it. Right now you see a red line with the actual vel played from the keyboard, but i would rather adjust the curve and see the visual red line display the result of the vel curve being applied to it. That is much more effective way to look at the screen and see as I hit the note what the curve is doing to it.
Other than that, I must say, I'm kind of excited about this product and I will be watching it. I don't think it replaces thingslike Ivory or some other libs yet. Not quite. But man, its way better than I thought it would be and takes no space on the HD. It did consume a lot of CPU though...up to 50% at times on my pc (2.5ghz P4). Most of the time it hovered around 20-25% CPU. Which is still a little high compared to some other stuff..but not really so bad.
I could easily see myself using this on my laptop for live gigging. but all that being said..the price is also kind of high for me at this point. If I have to only buy one piano product, this probably will not be it at that pricing. If the presets get better..to the point of challenging the sampled libs more closely...I may feel differently. I need to do a proper A/B comparison too...on a weighted controller, etc.. So we'll see. What I like most about this is the fact that there is a huge sonic possibilty of sound here for piano people and some of the non-real-world piano-ish sounds I got out of it with stacatto sound were sounds I could see layered under other sounds in a mix to add a lot of attack to a blended sound in a very organic way. I could really use that a lot, but not for $300.
I am a piano player but not an expert on the workings of acoustic piano. I'm aware that many people suggest the bosendorfer, but I dont have the cash and plus I don't think it's available in America.
One good thing about the "Clav" is I can trigger my samplers and soft-synths via MIDI. And if I don't like the onboard sounds, then I can simply mute it and use my PC for the sounds.
I was just curious if anyone here has any good advice on this?
Should I get a "real" piano or continue to go with synths such as Pianoteq?
Is Pianoteq convincing enough for lead or solo work?
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- KVRAF
- 3404 posts since 15 Sep, 2002
>>This is in uncertain terms the best piano I have ever heard outside of a large sample lib.
Hmm. The phrase, as typically used, is "in no uncertain terms." So was that a deliberate slight?
Hmm. The phrase, as typically used, is "in no uncertain terms." So was that a deliberate slight?
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- KVRAF
- 1985 posts since 14 Mar, 2006
LOL. Yea. The real term is a double negative...which is actually terrible english... haha ha...mistertoast wrote:>>This is in uncertain terms the best piano I have ever heard outside of a large sample lib.
Hmm. The phrase, as typically used, is "in no uncertain terms." So was that a deliberate slight?
It was not a deliberate slight. I did see it though and almost changed to the double neg version, but then realized that I am not certain about anything at all....so I left it. LOL. Basically, I'm quite impressed with this plugin, but I'm also extremely impressed with Ivory and I do think the raw sound of Ivory beat out this PM plugin. Ivory is meatier sounding and I really like that Stretch tuning mode that Ivory has for when I'm just practicing or playing solo. Also, I just hear all kinds of great overtones and resonating things happening when I hit octaves in the left hand, hold them and then play other notes up higher. They really got a lot of that stuff right in that program.
This new PM plugin is a bit thin sounding in comparison... But I'm still totally blown away by how good it sounds for what it is. Run it through a different reverb, EQ and compression and it actually comes alive quite a bit more BTW. The idea of a 7MB acoustic grand on my laptop is enticing..and this plug would work fine for gigging. I personally think its at least as good as a few sampled pianos that didn't impressive me for various reasons.
Too expensive though I feel at this time. Maybe if they improve it I will reconsider it. I can load a free sound font piano that is also just a usable as this for my live gigging or other lite piano requiremnts. I'm also impressed with the random button and the possibility of creating non-real-world sounds that have an organic piano quality to them but would be difficult or impossible to get out of a real piano...mainly to layer with other sounds and add a bit of attack. Not worth $300 for that though.
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- Banned
- 316 posts since 3 Apr, 2006
The Moonlight Sonata demo track isn't quite as believable compared to live performances. The timbre sounds a little bit "synthy" like a vibraphone or bell sound during the exposed parts, and during the thickest textural parts of the song, the mix gets very muddy and rumbly.
I'm not sure if it's the parameter values that the performer used, the host's mixer settings, or the plugin itself that are to blame. But the other tracks are f***ing awesome!
I'm a big fan of Beethoven and of Jazz, Classical, and Romanticism music in general, so I tend to be picky. But this synth absolutely kicks a$$ on some of the other demos.
I wouldn't be complementing this plug if it didn't deserve it... Absolutely Amazing... At least the demos are; I haven't tested the VST itself yet, cuz I can't stop listening to the demo songs! Beautiful.
I'm not sure if it's the parameter values that the performer used, the host's mixer settings, or the plugin itself that are to blame. But the other tracks are f***ing awesome!
I'm a big fan of Beethoven and of Jazz, Classical, and Romanticism music in general, so I tend to be picky. But this synth absolutely kicks a$$ on some of the other demos.
I wouldn't be complementing this plug if it didn't deserve it... Absolutely Amazing... At least the demos are; I haven't tested the VST itself yet, cuz I can't stop listening to the demo songs! Beautiful.