Let's get this out of the way first: It runs like a champ on Receptor. After all of my struggles with pianos in Kontakt and Kompakt I didn't think it was possible. After a few hours playing it, I would have no qualms about running it live at 64 sample buffer. Not only didn't I crash it, but I didn't come close. I only used the default settings of 24 voices and medium buffer in Ivory, but voice stealing was never an audible issue. I feel I could raise that 24 voice amount quite a bit - just haven't gone there yet.
It is a shame that Kontakt II does not perform like this, as there are elements of using that that I would prefer to Ivory.
Some of the piano sample libraries I have from Post and Sampletekk are more usable in given situations. I like the ability to use Scripts, and to customize the sample sets. One thing I really miss in Ivory that I can do via scripts in Kontakt is half-pedaling. Lastly, I have a mono version of White Grand Jr. by Sampletekk that I created myself that sounds
great, and I wish Ivory sounded better in mono. I did find that
setting the stereo spread to 0% within Ivory sounded better than summing L/R out of the box. Definitely passible.
All that said, the 3 Ivory libraries sound very good indeed. All of the pianos are more playable and dynamically controllable than the aforementioned libraries. It is nice to be able to tweak EQ and timbre within the GUI, though I had better EQ results using a plugin following Ivory. The presets for each type of piano can vary quite a bit - so I just found one that almost suited me and tweaked to taste. My main intended use is for live performance, as I have a piano at home, but it will also come in handy for sessions in studios with no piano. This in mind, what I went for first of all were
very dry versions of all 3 pianos, both mono and stereo. The Steinway seems least suited for live use, as the samples seem fairly ambient in their raw form. I could see using it solo in a small club on a ballad or something.
For Rock band use I will likely stick to using my P250 for piano
and utilize the Receptor for other things, but for piano-led gigs, Ivory will take over.
I'll join in with those that have said Ivory is a real winner on Receptor. It really runs incredibly well. No comprimises.
I still have my wish list (Better mono, 1/2 pedaling, maybe an upright) but I am more than satisfied with my purchase.
Did anyone else notice that Gigasampler is getting released as a VST plug? Maybe that will be the answer to better DFD performance on Receptor from other libraries.
Ivory first impressions (Long)
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 387 posts since 24 Aug, 2004
I like it quite a bit.
It's not perfect though. I guess the tendency is to write about all the little things that could stand improvement, but it sounds great and plays fantastically. It is very expressive and you can control the dynamics very well.
It's not perfect though. I guess the tendency is to write about all the little things that could stand improvement, but it sounds great and plays fantastically. It is very expressive and you can control the dynamics very well.
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- KVRian
- 1116 posts since 22 Apr, 2005 from Nashville, TN USA
Phil,
thanks for the excellent write-up. I would be very interested in your results when you raise the polyphony up substantially (like 64 or more). Also, is there something similar to the "self-masking" Kontakt script going on in Ivory? Seems like there would HAVE to be, if you say you don't notice voice-stealing using only 24 voices.
thanks for the excellent write-up. I would be very interested in your results when you raise the polyphony up substantially (like 64 or more). Also, is there something similar to the "self-masking" Kontakt script going on in Ivory? Seems like there would HAVE to be, if you say you don't notice voice-stealing using only 24 voices.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 387 posts since 24 Aug, 2004
JayVee wrote:Hey Phil ~ when you say 'Better Mono', what do you mean?
What are the Monophonic sounds like now, and what would you change?
Not mono as in one note of polyphony, mono as opposed to stereo. Some stereo pianos sound better collapsed to mono than others. I generally run mono on stage unless I am playing solo or something.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 387 posts since 24 Aug, 2004
As there is no meter for voice usage like there is in Kontakt, it is hard to say for sure whether or not there is self-masking.Hybernation wrote:Phil,
thanks for the excellent write-up. I would be very interested in your results when you raise the polyphony up substantially (like 64 or more). Also, is there something similar to the "self-masking" Kontakt script going on in Ivory? Seems like there would HAVE to be, if you say you don't notice voice-stealing using only 24 voices.
I will post again about the higher voice counts when I get a chance to experiment more.
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- KVRian
- 1116 posts since 22 Apr, 2005 from Nashville, TN USA
How much disk space on Receptor does it consume (I don't have 40GB left unless I remove some things) ? Also, can you install "selectively" either by piano or by sample bit rate? Thanks in advance!PhilAiken wrote:As there is no meter for voice usage like there is in Kontakt, it is hard to say for sure whether or not there is self-masking.Hybernation wrote:Phil,
thanks for the excellent write-up. I would be very interested in your results when you raise the polyphony up substantially (like 64 or more). Also, is there something similar to the "self-masking" Kontakt script going on in Ivory? Seems like there would HAVE to be, if you say you don't notice voice-stealing using only 24 voices.
I will post again about the higher voice counts when I get a chance to experiment more.
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- KVRian
- 691 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi Hybernation,
40g is required for the full installation. There are 3 major models, and one synth model:
Bosendorfer Imperial Grand (16gb)
German D 9' (Steinway, 14gb)
Studio 7' (Yamaha, 11gb)
Synth (almost nothing).
You can selectively choose which model to install - especially since installation is essentially drag-n-drop of the sample files into your samples folder.
That said, I haven't individually installed models, but the Ivory documentation says that you can do this.
There is no sub-selections by bit rate, mono, etc.
Regards,
Kevin L.
40g is required for the full installation. There are 3 major models, and one synth model:
Bosendorfer Imperial Grand (16gb)
German D 9' (Steinway, 14gb)
Studio 7' (Yamaha, 11gb)
Synth (almost nothing).
You can selectively choose which model to install - especially since installation is essentially drag-n-drop of the sample files into your samples folder.
That said, I haven't individually installed models, but the Ivory documentation says that you can do this.
There is no sub-selections by bit rate, mono, etc.
Regards,
Kevin L.
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- KVRist
- 91 posts since 29 Apr, 2005 from Fort Lauderdale, FL
I'm not as impressed with the bosey as I want to be...that would be the one to "cut", in my opinion. I'm still getting acquainted, though.
-Matt
-Matt
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- KVRian
- 1116 posts since 22 Apr, 2005 from Nashville, TN USA
Thanks for the info, Kevin and Matt. Interesting, Matt, that the largest of the pianos is your least favorite. What don't you like about this one?
One more question: how are they recorded, ambience wise? dry? any room or soundbound ambience?
Reason I ask is, I tend to like my pianos pretty dry so I can add reverb later. The ones I use that "sit in the mix" well are the ones with the least amount of ambience.
(FYI: My favorite pianos this month are SampleTekk's TSO and Black Grand Close. If the NI stuff would just work as well on Receptor as it does on my Dell, I could quite scheming to buy Ivory!
)
One more question: how are they recorded, ambience wise? dry? any room or soundbound ambience?
Reason I ask is, I tend to like my pianos pretty dry so I can add reverb later. The ones I use that "sit in the mix" well are the ones with the least amount of ambience.
(FYI: My favorite pianos this month are SampleTekk's TSO and Black Grand Close. If the NI stuff would just work as well on Receptor as it does on my Dell, I could quite scheming to buy Ivory!
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- KVRian
- 691 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Silicon Valley
Hi Again,
I don't have exact info here, but in my opinion - the 'dryest' of settings is fairly present without much reverb trails. Ivory has its own convolution engine to define reverb spaces (post-recording). They have presets from the perspective of the performer, and from the audience -- as well as the basic room sizes.
Some people I've talked with skip these altogether, and follow Ivory with other plugs for EQ and reverb. For me, I am quite happy with their presets.
Hopefully someone with more mixing experience can give opinions about how Ivory's reverb (or lack of) sits in a mix.
I can't give you any head-to-head views of the Sample Tekk pianos - but for me, Ivory is much more playable than any sample-set I've encountered using Kontakt (on any platform, PC/Mac/Receptor). I also prefer the Ivory models over the PMI sets that I used to use.
This is probably one of those things that you probably need to take a risk on: either 'hope that others' tastes are similar to yours, and just buy', or 'try it somewhere and convince yourself'. Unfortunately, the latter is not really available on many plugs.
I bought into Ivory early (having experience with Kurzweill before, that's where those guys come from). Their techs have been improving their engine, and taking some of my feedback (for RTAS performance, ambience levels on sustained notes). I think that level of commitment to their only product also factored into my buy.
Hope these random musings help - If you can play with Ivory at a dealer, that would probably help rest your concerns.
Regards,
Kevin L
I don't have exact info here, but in my opinion - the 'dryest' of settings is fairly present without much reverb trails. Ivory has its own convolution engine to define reverb spaces (post-recording). They have presets from the perspective of the performer, and from the audience -- as well as the basic room sizes.
Some people I've talked with skip these altogether, and follow Ivory with other plugs for EQ and reverb. For me, I am quite happy with their presets.
Hopefully someone with more mixing experience can give opinions about how Ivory's reverb (or lack of) sits in a mix.
I can't give you any head-to-head views of the Sample Tekk pianos - but for me, Ivory is much more playable than any sample-set I've encountered using Kontakt (on any platform, PC/Mac/Receptor). I also prefer the Ivory models over the PMI sets that I used to use.
This is probably one of those things that you probably need to take a risk on: either 'hope that others' tastes are similar to yours, and just buy', or 'try it somewhere and convince yourself'. Unfortunately, the latter is not really available on many plugs.
I bought into Ivory early (having experience with Kurzweill before, that's where those guys come from). Their techs have been improving their engine, and taking some of my feedback (for RTAS performance, ambience levels on sustained notes). I think that level of commitment to their only product also factored into my buy.
Hope these random musings help - If you can play with Ivory at a dealer, that would probably help rest your concerns.
Regards,
Kevin L
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- KVRer
- 11 posts since 23 Mar, 2006
Ivory's working great on my Receptor now. I can run the 8-layer libraries, Atmosphere, and Trilogy at the same time, and the 10-layer libraries standalone at 32 sample buffer settings.
I can run Ivory and Elektrik Piano at the same time, but only with DFD turned off. The buffer settings that work great for Kontakt with DFD on are the opposite of the ones that work well for Ivory.
Ivory is easily the most "musical" and playable of the libraries I've auditioned, and for me, that counts for a lot.
I can run Ivory and Elektrik Piano at the same time, but only with DFD turned off. The buffer settings that work great for Kontakt with DFD on are the opposite of the ones that work well for Ivory.
Ivory is easily the most "musical" and playable of the libraries I've auditioned, and for me, that counts for a lot.
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- KVRer
- 9 posts since 2 Mar, 2006
A quick side note for Ivory users based on one of the early posts in this thread: I'm an "Akoustic Piano" user on receptor and although it sounds good, it has the same summing problem as Ivory. You can mess with the stereo spread, but if you're running in mono, you're probably better off leaving it in its default mode and taking one channel (try each to see what sounds better). I don't think these are a problems with the engines, but due to how the instruments were recorded. If you know you're going to need a good mono patch, there are ways to mic an instrument that will make it sum to mono better. Often these techniques don't sound as big and wide in stereo so sample libraries often don't use them. It would be nice if they had a choice that sounded good in mono.
By the way, Akoustic Piano works well in Receptor but you need to keep the polyphony somwhat limited when you're at low latencies (especially if you've got other plugins running too). Some of the parameters within Akoustic Piano (like the EQ) don't appear to work, though.
By the way, Akoustic Piano works well in Receptor but you need to keep the polyphony somwhat limited when you're at low latencies (especially if you've got other plugins running too). Some of the parameters within Akoustic Piano (like the EQ) don't appear to work, though.
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- KVRist
- 135 posts since 8 Jun, 2005
Hi,
Thanks for the info. I wondered how you installed Ivory's library. It took me hours and hours to install Ivory's library from DVD to my Mac G5... Now that it's done if I want to change hard drives (I installed some 10k rpm raptors) I was able to just drag and drop by Ivory library folder from one hard drive to another. If Receptor had FireWire 400 or 800 it would be easier to copy the library over, but I guess it needs to me converted also?
Step by step instructions for Mac OSX users would be much appreciated if someone has done it.
Thanks! -Vincent
Thanks for the info. I wondered how you installed Ivory's library. It took me hours and hours to install Ivory's library from DVD to my Mac G5... Now that it's done if I want to change hard drives (I installed some 10k rpm raptors) I was able to just drag and drop by Ivory library folder from one hard drive to another. If Receptor had FireWire 400 or 800 it would be easier to copy the library over, but I guess it needs to me converted also?
Step by step instructions for Mac OSX users would be much appreciated if someone has done it.
Thanks! -Vincent