Nomad Factory Blue Tubes Bundle ,,,anyone using this?

[hifiboom]

you are wrong btw if you believe the curve hasn't nothing to do with sound and is just 'something technical'.

I don't believe this! Its just that I do not claim that curve A sounds better than curve B.
Its the same with different Q settings, large Q sounds totally different than small Q values. But you cannot say Q=0.5 is better than Q=1.2.
Thats the nature of things!

But for emulation true hardware: the curve would be a good starting point. And if the curve is not same as the analog hardware it should not have a stamp to be an emulation.
But if its just and only the curve of the EQ, one flexible VST would be enough to emulate all that hardware EQs.

So we aggree all at last.

"Most" VSTs are no real emulations of anything + they sound shitty! Its all about money making.
At least thats my opinion.

[M'Snah]

You have a nice attitude for someone who has only 5 posts Mr Klever. I'm not sure if defjamm will be happy that you're with him .

[KleVeR]

You have a nice attitude for someone who has only 5 posts Mr Klever. I'm not sure if defjamm will be happy that you're with him .

In what way has my attitude something to do with my post count?
I don't get what you're trying to say...
Has my post count on KVR something to do with my competence???
Am I not professionally skilled enough until I reach the 10.000 posts mark on KVR?

I'm backing him up cause I get what he's trying to say and also have tested many many EQs (including Blue Tubes) and came to the same conclusion.

There's simply a misconception going on in this thread (maybe based on language barriers) that I tried to clear up.

[M'Snah]

Post count means that nobody here knows you, so you don't really have the credibility to make an arrogant post like that. The way you phrased your post does not really help either, except to put more oil on the flames.

Y'all don't get his points. [...]

Get it?

I think most of us DID understand his message, only one or two who didn't.

Regardless of whether the Blue Tubes claims are true, they do have there uses when mixing. Unless you're trying to convince the world that the bundle is complete crap.

In addition to that, I strongly believe a great many kvr-ians don't have much experience with analog gear, not even to mention 'expensive and/or high quality' analog gear, so for them it doesn't really mean anything if the 'analog' VST sounds truely analog or not, as long as it sounds nice.

[KleVeR]

Post count means that nobody here knows you, so you don't really have the credibility to make an arrogant post like that. The way you phrased your post does not really help either, except to put more oil on the flames.

Arrogant? I don't think my post was arrogant.. At least it wasn't meant that way.

I think most of us DID understand his message, only one or two who didn't.

Reading all the responses somehow gave me the impression that everyone was extremely set on attitudes like "Scientific results don't mean a sh*t, you'r crazy, defjamm".. and that's where I thought I had to give him some backing.

Regardless of whether the Blue Tubes claims are true, they do have there uses when mixing. Unless you're trying to convince the world that the bundle is complete crap.

Well, let me descibe it this way: there is much better freeware

In addition to that, I strongly believe a great many kvr-ians don't have much experience with analog gear, not even to mention 'expensive and/or high quality' analog gear, so for them it doesn't really mean anything if the 'analog' VST sounds truely analog or not, as long as it sounds nice.

Generally I agree! But I disagree that Blue Tubes sound 'nice'! Those plugins just sound dull, muffled, they utilize standard dsp algorithms.. the EQs in the bundle just sound 'harsh', simply not pleasing (in any way beside maybe if you prefer digitally aliased sound in certain situations).

If you want good ('nice') sounding processors, maybe some analog emulations, go with the UAD-1, Waves SSL Bundle, maybe some of Voxengo's / Kjaerhus' products, or similar plugins of comparable quality..

[CapnLockheed]

while i'm providing facts, all you can do is writing crap which is non relative to the topic. it doesn't surprise me that you're an old man. old men are often the most ignorant ones. they think they know everything. that you make a living with your ears doesn't prove shit...you could have 10 grammys, it still doesn't tell anything about your knowledge of DIGITAL SIGNAL PROCESSING. i could be selling drugs, it wouldn't tell shit about my dsp-knowledge.
a drummer does also a living (when he is lucky) with music. does this mean he knows how an eqs works internally? does he know something about dsp automatically? what about a piano player. old girl, your example sucks.

must the programmer of cubase have good ears? no you idiot, he must have good programming skills.

i KNOW i'm right and your just an old geezer looking for attention.

You're quite correct I am older than you. Your level of immaturity makes that plainly obvious. I'm not just a
musician little boy. I have a degree in EE and I was
looking at the curves of real analog circuits on real
oscilloscopes when you were just a twinkle in your
father's pants. You think because you've read a few
tutorials online you're now an audio engineer and DSP
programmer? You never did answer my question: What do
you do for a living? Don't give up flipping those
burgers just yet!!

Thanks for providing more "facts". You've just backed up my
assumptions about you. A) You're young and inexperienced. B)
You're not an audio professional. I don't know shit about
your dsp knowledge either but I'm willing to bet you have'nt
got a degree in EE do you?

The fact of the matter is that I agree that the Blue Tubes EQ's are not the most musical sounding EQ plugins out. I did'nt need to look at the results on my oscilloscope to come to that conclusion.

But to post a graph and make the ridiculous statement that because one curve does'nt exactly match another everyone with "good" ears must agree that curve A) sounds "good" and curve B) sounds "bad" is just plain ignorant.

Have nice life....you'll enjoy it more once you've grown up.

Cheers.....CL

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

ehi ehi ehi.. don't fight please.
I understand what defjamm was saying here. Or at least I believe so (tell me if I'm wrong).
Sometimes dsp/plugins developers claim an "analog" behaviour but their products haven't an "analog" behaviour at all. Defjamm is saying an "analog" equalizer should have at least an analog "frequency" response shape (eliosound here is trying to come close to a known analog curve, here the example). I think there is too much abuse of "vintage", "warmth", "analog", "clone", "replica" in products now, and too many guis derived from photos of classic hardware monsters. And there is too much approximation instead, if you go in the developer section you'll discover someone is trying to emulate sine lfos with parabolas or other evil things, and this "someone" is about the 80% of developers. Now. If you call this thing "emulation", "musical toy", "tool" everything is ok, everything is beautiful. If you call this thing "fairchild", "neve", "gml", ehi, something is going really wrong. This my humble opinion.

[Alan]

• 1.) I'm an older guy with plenty of Pro experience

• 2.) I'm not a programmer so I don't look at graphs or understand them

• 3.) Iv'e been a member here since day one and my post count has been reset more times than I can keep track of

That out of the way, my "ears" tell me these plugs sound like crap compared to just about anything out there including most freeware, especially the EQ which is god-awful by any standards, and I'm far from alone on this. Anyone can get use out of even poorly coded and poor sounding plugs depending on the source which proves nothing. There comes a time where opinion is one thing, but standards are standards and if you can't hear that, well, too bad. This thread does nothing but give undeserved attention to an undeserving company as far as I'm concerned.

[hifiboom]

I think posting the graphs alone doesnt make too much sense...

http://www.eliosound.com/amlt
if you read on www.eliosound.com, you will sound following line:

"We do not say that one EQ is better or worse than another, or that one will sound better than another. This chart just compares the technical characteristics of some plugin EQs. Using one EQ or another is also a matter of taste."

That says all.

look at the compressors: even at the same settings most sound different, some harsh, other pumping, .....

The same with EQ: the curve is important for a correct emulation and it is ONE part of modelling an analog gear EQ, but not everything.
I think more important is that there are some components in analog gear that alters the sound in a way that software fx has not yet implemented.(adding transients, components distortion at higher amounts, different response of electrical parts to differnt dynamic values) Same with many other fx.

So most VST implementations sound like really simple algorithms behind without exact modelling of all those anomalies and electrical components. Thats why most of them sound "digital" and people that are used to analog gear are not satisfied with the sound.(by the way, I've not yet tried AirEQ, maybe its good)

There is one feature where digital rules over analog: no noise!

but the noise in analog recordings is much less distubing than the harshness of digital tools.

[Arksun]

I think posting the graphs alone doesnt make too much sense...

http://www.eliosound.com/amlt
if you read on www.eliosound.com, you will sound following line:

"We do not say that one EQ is better or worse than another, or that one will sound better than another. This chart just compares the technical characteristics of some plugin EQs. Using one EQ or another is also a matter of taste."

That says all.

look at the compressors: even at the same settings most sound different, some harsh, other pumping, .....

The same with EQ: the curve is important for a correct emulation and it is ONE part of modelling an analog gear EQ, but not everything.
I think more important is that there are some components in analog gear that alters the sound in a way that software fx has not yet implemented.(adding transients, components distortion at higher amounts, different response of electrical parts to differnt dynamic values) Same with many other fx.

So most VST implementations sound like really simple algorithms behind without exact modelling of all those anomalies and electrical components. Thats why most of them sound "digital" and people that are used to analog gear are not satisfied with the sound.(by the way, I've not yet tried AirEQ, maybe its good)

There is one feature where digital rules over analog: no noise!

but the noise in analog recordings is much less distubing than the harshness of digital tools.

Perhaps 'most' in the big scheme of things, but a lot of the latest plugins DO indeed try to model each individual aspect of a hardware eq, a different model/set of algorithms for each component of the Unit to build up a much more complex whole.

http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/aclm.php

I'm not talking about Blue Tubes anymore, more the stuff like Sonalksis and Kjaerhus, both of which I rate a lot. Have you tried either of those hifiboom, if not I'd highly recommend them Also check out the gliss 2 eq by voxengo, which in high quality mode can provide some rather pleasing results.

[M'Snah]

• 1.) I'm an older guy with plenty of Pro experience

• 2.) I'm not a programmer so I don't look at graphs or understand them

• 3.) Iv'e been a member here since day one and my post count has been reset more times than I can keep track of

lol. You're my kind of guy ...

Bottom line so far: I spent a lot of money on these plugins, quite a few guys with better ears and more experience than me say that they are crap. And I will still like them because a) they are expensive, and after discussions like this I cannot sell them, and b) because my ears and experience don't let me hear the difference.

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

"and after discussions like this I cannot sell them"

I think the company is damaged too, and this is not good. Anyway here 'crappy' is a dangerous word. There are more expensive plugs and more crappy than these ones. Here 'crappy' is relative. These 'crappy' things are 100 times better than digital products of 10 years ago

[Arksun]

..and to think I used to use the inbuilt eq's in Cubase VST V3 way back then *shudders at the thought*

We've certainly come a long way!

[hifiboom]

@Arksun: I'm not saying everything digital is not good. It depends on what you need!
If you are on orchestral sound maybe a digital unaltered EQ is the way you like to add.

If you are doing heavy metal sound maybe you want some colouring and slightly tube kind of EQ,compressors and so on ....

To my ears all that VST fx sound to sterile, clean and perfect in some way. The synths and fx. Thats all.

This is for example what I would call a real emulation.
http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2006/august/index2.html
Modeling the diodes, FET, some slightly clipping and distortion in the circuits components, frequency colouring . Okay this is a compressor not an EQ. But its the same for any analog component, and synths too.

Its hard work, they measure every component of the circuit and how it reacts on different gain and frequencies. And then model this into software algorithms. Thats what I call recreation of analog gear.

And even this process does not implicit that it exctly sounds like the real thing...

VST market at the moment is flood with synthedit toy-tools and many self-proclaimed-audio-engineers.
In between there are a few real audio-enigneers. But as a customer you can hardly find out which one is on the good side and which not.

How many different EQs, Compressor do we have on VST market, if you count in the free ones, I think we reach hundrets or even thousands...

just my 2 cent

[Arksun]

This is for example what I would call a real emulation.
http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2006/august/index2.html
Modeling the diodes, FET, some slightly clipping and distortion in the circuits components, frequency colouring . Okay this is a compressor not an EQ. But its the same for any analog component, and synths too.

Its hard work, they measure every component of the circuit and how it reacts on different gain and frequencies. And then model this into software algorithms. Thats what I call recreation of analog gear.

And even this process does not implicit that it exctly sounds like the real thing...


just my 2 cent

Which is pretty much exactly what Kjaerhus are doing with their native VST plugs too

I personally wouldn't use the word 'sterile' describing their gold plugs or the sonalksis stuff. The sonalksis eq does impart a certain character which I find adds to the music. A perfect tracking eq.