KVR Audio

guitarzan · Post by **guitarzan** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:12 am

AdmiralQuality wrote:OH and please note, the FrettedSynth things AREN'T tracking. They're filtering, distorting, and pitch shifting the ORIGINAL WAVEFORM. Then applying envelopes (basically triggered envelope "followers". All stuff you could do with regular guitar effects! I don't have it, but I bet you could do most of what they do with G.R. They have octavers, pitch shifters, envelope followers, don't they? Sure, it might not be as integrated and "to the point", but again, don't be fooled, they're NOT pitch tracking. There is no "CV" stage in them, the output wave is just a distortion of the input wave, and then pitch shifted to get whatever interval you select (which again is the process that I think is introducing the bad latency I hear. Without the pitch shift this technique SHOULD be very responsive! )

The FS Audio Triggered Synths ARE tracking - they have oscillators. SynthEdit synths work with virtual CV.

FrettedSynth wrote:NO MIDI is used in the tracking of the synths it uses instead "Control Voltage" That is why you can bend and slide smoothly. That is the biggest reason I have stayed away from the MIDI guitar setups, MIDI tracks in steps "zipper effect"

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... h&start=30

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:26 am

They don't have oscillators per se (or if they do, they're not behaving like oscillators). They have the WORD "oscillator" written on the GUI, but that doesn't make it an oscillator. I can hear artifacts of the guitar's tone through them... which if they were true "CV" controlled oscillators, you wouldn't. Rather, they're a distortion process which probably first turns the incoming tone to something close to a square wave, then processes that square wave to get the other waveshapes.

But I may be wrong. I did say it was just a guess after a short test. Anybody know the author so we can find out for sure?

And if it WAS pitch tracking, then it's kind of a horribe omission that it doesn't output MIDI.

My ass talks smart! You'd do well to listen real close guitarzan.

guitarzan · Post by **guitarzan** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:27 am

MIDI is omitted because MIDI for guitar sucks!! You'll know that after you try it!

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... h&start=30

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:30 am

Oh, you've removed the "talking out my ass comment", now my reply is all out of context.

Anyway, just because somebody who made something out of SynthEdit uses the word "oscillators" and "tracking", doesn't make it true.

THINK of them as those things if you want, but it's not (or maybe I'm wrong? Again, lets just ask him or her!)

(And SynthEdit doesn't use CV or ANYTHING, when it's an effect.

This is all just fancy distortion, and some pitch shifting... I'll betcha.)

I'm going to attempt to prove or disprove this theory... bbiab.

guitarzan · Post by **guitarzan** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:35 am

READ HERE: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... h&start=30 Ask FrettedSynth, here's a thread he's certainly monitoring, you'll be a little OT (it's FR for FreeAmp 3), but he just mentioned that Bass Synth improvement there so...: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... &start=105

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:41 am

What exact part are you mentioning?

Anyway... here's evidence #1. I'm driving Fretted Synth with a synth... running pure gated square and saw waves through it to see if I could hear a difference (still not quite sure, trying to figure out how to get it to stop distorting and actually make the waveforms it's saying it is...)

But, while doing that, noticed that when I stop my synth input sound dead, the release portion of TrippLead doesn't continue on... if it had been TRACKING, the oscillators could continue to generate pitch without the presence of any input, and you could have releases that go longer than the source guitar (yet another cool thing about guitar synth) But not here....

More to come....

guitarzan · Post by **guitarzan** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:43 am

Again,

FrettedSynth wrote:NO MIDI is used in the tracking of the synths it uses instead "Control Voltage" That is why you can bend and slide smoothly. That is the biggest reason I have stayed away from the MIDI guitar setups, MIDI tracks in steps "zipper effect"

Guitar is way too dynamic to be tracked in steps IMHO.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... h&start=30

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:44 am

OK, I just got it to stop distorting (was the noise waveform and the sub osc)

AND... it makes different shaped wave outputs when I drive it with a square, saw, and triangle wave. If it was truely tracking the pitch and truely generating oscillators based on the detected pitch, then the shape of the source waveform wouldn't make ANY difference.

I rest my case. Ta!

kodama · Post by **kodama** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:45 am

FR synths do track, and those are oscilators (do I win an AQ synth?).

(They sound cool on drums too!)

The reason for no midi out is that the algo is not note based and the FR dood said it would be impossible to express as midi.

FYI, one of my fave tracking things is Super Eel!

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:47 am

kodama wrote:FR synths do track, and those are oscilators (do I win an AQ synth?).

(They sound cool on drums too!)

The reason for no midi out is that the algo is not note based and the FR dood said it would be impossible to express as midi.

FYI, one of my fave tracking things is Super Eel!

You see, a CV is EASY to express as MIDI. That's what MIDI was INVENTED to REPLACE!

Hang on... I'm doing more tests. Sigh.. I should be working.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:50 am

Oh... some of the original sound was leaking though (it lets one side of a stereo source through

) ... the plot thickens!... stand by

guitarzan · Post by **guitarzan** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:53 am

He does include a synth-like section without oscillators in FreeAmp 3, but all 4 of his audio triggered synths are synths. Analog pitch to CV always tracked better than pitch to MIDI. Read about the GR300 That's why Pat Metheney still uses the GR300.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:55 am

More evidence... the pitch shifting introduces aliasing that isn't there at the 0 frequency.

If it was "CV" controlled, the same oscillator shape would make the same sound, at the same pitch. But i drive it with +12 semitone shift and hear aliasing, then drive it at 0 semitone shift from a note an octave higher (same pitch therefore should be same CV) and I hear aliasing. Evidence of a pitch shift... which you wouldn't need if this was a CV controlling oscillators (you'd just add 12 to the CV)

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:58 am

I know about the GR series and they WERE pitch tracked VCOs. This isn't. It's a distortion/ waveshaper/harmonizer. I'm convinced at this point.

Sorry. Get FrettedSynth in here to defend himself if you really think I'm wrong. But if it was CV, you wouldn't expect any artifacts from the pitch shifting.

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:06 am

Also, if it WAS a CV, then why can't I add a simple LFO to the oscillators to make vibrato? But there's no real time frequency control at all... just the hard set intervals... more indication that the author is using a pitch shift on their modified waveforms.

VSTI world hate MIDI GUITAR?