FreeAmp version 3 What do you want?

[FrettedSynth]

I didn't read this whole thread, but here's what I'd ideally want in an ampsim on top of all the stock features:

1 - Allow for multiple mics on the same cabs at varrying distances with an option for on/off axis.

2 - ALL the channels of multi-channel amps. Not just a Boogie mega-distortion, but also the other channels. This would include modelled Vibrato channels on Fenders, etc.

3 - Mix and matching of preamps with EQs a la Amplitube 1.

4 - Amp Bypass (maybe I just want the sound of a mic'd cab).

5 - Tube types. How cool would it be to have a few options as to which types of tubes you'd want in.

6 - Mic Options - I want SM57's, MD-421's,U47's, an e609's, and Royer R121's. You can never have enough variety in this department.

7 - No effects! I don't care. I just want the best possible sounding amp sims and would hate to see development time on that taken away for the sake of effects.

8 - Bass and Keyboard Amps and Cabs - Bass amps and cabs would be a must, but no one does keyboard amps and their cabs. I wouldn't mind having that Roland Keyboard amp everyone uses as an option.

9 - Good strobe tuner.

BTW, earlier in the thread someone said open it up. I think what they meant, is that, at least when playing clean some amps are extremely dynamic and responsive to picking (a Fender Twin comes to mind). They're almost startling to play at times, because of just how dynamic they are. I think that often gets overlooked on clean sounds in amp sims. Anyway, that's it for now.

Wow! That is one hell of a list, Wish I had all the equipment to do comparison and anylisis of, to build such a beast. But! Money, space and time are not there for such a thing at the moment
What I want to work out first is the preamp\amp! IMHO it has not been done right yet, by me or anyone else for that matter? IMHO You should be able to take the computer output and send it to a power amp and a 2x12\4x12 cabinet and use it like a real amp? If this could be acomplished I think the rest would be rather easy to do?

Convolution speaker cab's done with different mic's I think could add to the right preamp\amp most of what you mention you are looking for? in different mic, mic placement and different cabinets, but only if the front end is right?

So starting with Drive5 this is what I want to try and do! Make the front end right, can I do it? hell I don't know but if you look at my track record I don't give up too easy

If you have the time and would like to help? Please check out "Drive5" avalible in the KVR developer challenge http://www.kvraudio.com/developer_challenge.php
It is a preamp\amp designed to be ran through a convolution, speaker cabinet impulse response.

Let me know what you think I did right (if any) or what I did wrong, please don't be bashfull to let me know? as this is just the start of me looking at it this way and I have very little time into it, but plan to try and work on it till it is right.

Fretted Synth

PS! thanks scum

[cheul]

Hmmm very good concept this Drive5, to get the front end right and associate it with convolution... Will have to test drive (ha ha) this one when I find time.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Wow! That is one hell of a list, Wish I had all the equipment to do comparison and anylisis of, to build such a beast. But! Money, space and time are not there for such a thing at the moment
What I want to work out first is the preamp\amp! IMHO it has not been done right yet, by me or anyone else for that matter? IMHO You should be able to take the computer output and send it to a power amp and a 2x12\4x12 cabinet and use it like a real amp? If this could be acomplished I think the rest would be rather easy to do?

Convolution speaker cab's done with different mic's I think could add to the right preamp\amp most of what you mention you are looking for? in different mic, mic placement and different cabinets, but only if the front end is right?

So starting with Drive5 this is what I want to try and do! Make the front end right, can I do it? hell I don't know but if you look at my track record I don't give up too easy

If you have the time and would like to help? Please check out "Drive5" avalible in the KVR developer challenge http://www.kvraudio.com/developer_challenge.php
It is a preamp\amp designed to be ran through a convolution, speaker cabinet impulse response.

Let me know what you think I did right (if any) or what I did wrong, please don't be bashfull to let me know? as this is just the start of me looking at it this way and I have very little time into it, but plan to try and work on it till it is right.

Fretted Synth

PS! thanks scum

Hey FrettedSynth, those were just my ideals. And I'd love to help out, but I'm not sure how useful the testing would be without the cabs in all honesty. The cab is at least half the tone, and trying to play without it and apply some cab impulses later on would never let me know how the amp really responds to picking dynamics (this happens live, as the amp will dictate how you play it). And of course using convolution as I play live would lead to latency and similar problems. Also I don't have a cab on it's own, just a Fender Twin Amp combo, so there'd be no easy way for me to bypass the preamp there (perhaps the FX Loop? but there would be an impedence mismatch methinks).

Anyway, I'm not a developer, but thinking about it, I would actually approach the problem backwards. I would work on getting a good mic'd cab sound first, then go back and do the front end. I mean if the amp isn't connected to a speaker, how would you know if it sounds good. But you can tweak the amp to sounding great after you've got the cab right. The hardest part here is that you're probably intending on having multiple cabs, and multiple mics. Perhaps you're goal should be to make one amp. Maybe three channels (clean, drive, distortion), but with just one cabinet option but several mic options (basically think of a hardware combo amp). This way, again, you can nail the sound of the cabinet, and tweak the amp to work with the way the cabinet sounds. Anyway, I hope that idea makes sense (whether you think it'd be the right approach or not). I'd be more than happy to help out later in the development cycle though, and feel free to contact me then.

[Vonbrucken]

remember the pin-up girl on the vst please

[guitarzan]

I'm not sure how useful the testing would be without the cabs in all honesty. The cab is at least half the tone, and trying to play without it and apply some cab impulses later on would never let me know how the amp really responds to picking dynamics (this happens live, as the amp will dictate how you play it). And of course using convolution as I play live would lead to latency and similar problems. Also I don't have a cab on it's own, just a Fender Twin Amp combo, so there'd be no easy way for me to bypass the preamp there (perhaps the FX Loop? but there would be an impedence mismatch methinks).

You can use Voxengo Boogex for realtime use of cab impulses. A good place to get more impulses is Noisevault - be sure to also search the Noisevault forum for more cab and speaker impulses. The Beamsonic Impulses are a must have, also - but they need to have the empty space at the beginning edited out or they will cause latency.

All that said, I really prefer cab/speaker/mic modeling (like in FreeAmp) to impulses , at least for tracking and live performance, but the impulses are a great reference and useful for getting the guitar to settle into a mix.

@FrettedSynth: I haven't spent enough time with drive5 yet myself - mainly because I've been pulling down ever greater tones and responsiveness with a combo of FreeAmp2, FLOORFISH (noisegate), CamelCrusher (mostly using a bit of the"Mech" distortion to simulate speaker/cab distortion, but I add a little "Phat Mode" compression, too), and George Yohng's W1 Limiter (I was just using it to drive my AKG 240M cans, but I have different headphones now that don't require the boost and the W1 still makes a hell of a difference). Please don't scrap that entire design, FrettedSynth!! I'll try to send you some presets for all that stuff to check out - it's really acting very different - very much reminds me of a good germanium fuzz in front of a hyper responsive tube combo amp. With a little subtle help from the synth section it's sagging and blooming in ways no other amp sim is even attempting.

[cheul]

@guitarzan : mp3 demos pleeeeeeease !!!! You really know how to draw attention and excitement.

[ionized]

@guitarzan : mp3 demos pleeeeeeease !!!! You really know how to draw attention and excitement.

And a screenshot of the setup in eXT like you (guitarzan) did in an earlier thread!

[FrettedSynth]

You can use Voxengo Boogex for realtime use of cab impulses. A good place to get more impulses is Noisevault - be sure to also search the Noisevault forum for more cab and speaker impulses. The Beamsonic Impulses are a must have, also - but they need to have the empty space at the beginning edited out or they will cause latency.

All that said, I really prefer cab/speaker/mic modeling (like in FreeAmp) to impulses , at least for tracking and live performance, but the impulses are a great reference and useful for getting the guitar to settle into a mix.

@FrettedSynth: I haven't spent enough time with drive5 yet myself - mainly because I've been pulling down ever greater tones and responsiveness with a combo of FreeAmp2, FLOORFISH (noisegate), CamelCrusher (mostly using a bit of the"Mech" distortion to simulate speaker/cab distortion, but I add a little "Phat Mode" compression, too), and George Yohng's W1 Limiter (I was just using it to drive my AKG 240M cans, but I have different headphones now that don't require the boost and the W1 still makes a hell of a difference). Please don't scrap that entire design, FrettedSynth!! I'll try to send you some presets for all that stuff to check out - it's really acting very different - very much reminds me of a good germanium fuzz in front of a hyper responsive tube combo amp. With a little subtle help from the synth section it's sagging and blooming in ways no other amp sim is even attempting.

Hello guitarzan

Thanks! I too agree that FreeAmp2 has some great tones IMHO but now believe it can be taken even further if I can get the preamp\amp right? For FreeAmp3 I will have no choice but to return to doing the speaker emulation like in FreeAmp2 but also think that convolution can become quite usefull for matching different tones of different cab\mic setups. Using convolution for the speaker wasen't my idea! many real good players from this board are what got me to look at it in the first place. I have to say "I like it" a means to an end NO but very usefull indeed.
For the "sagging and blooming" you mention! I think I can add that to what Drive5 offers in dynamics already, just starting to work on adding that now. Will let you all check it out when it is working?

As for looking to make the preamp\amp right first? to look at it any other way to me would seem like putting the cart before the horse? Sh*t flows down hill, best to start at the top and work your way down IMHO.

Fretted Synth

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

If you're mixing, what's the first thing in the chain (aside from your ears) the monitors or your soundcard? I mean if you want to look at the chain as where things get pluged into and end up, it's the soundcard, but this becomes mostly irrelevant when mixing, when the chain needs to be reversed. I mean look at it this way, I'd rather mix with nice monitors in a treated room connected to an SB Audigy, than a Pro-Tools HD system connected to standard computer speakers. I feel that's the importance of a cab. The debate is entirely philosophical, but I still doubt Fender or Marshall are working on creating amps without plugging them into speakers.

[FrettedSynth]

If you're mixing, what's the first thing in the chain (aside from your ears) the monitors or your soundcard? I mean if you want to look at the chain as where things get pluged into and end up, it's the soundcard, but this becomes mostly irrelevant when mixing, when the chain needs to be reversed. I mean look at it this way, I'd rather mix with nice monitors in a treated room connected to an SB Audigy, than a Pro-Tools HD system connected to standard computer speakers. I feel that's the importance of a cab. The debate is entirely philosophical, but I still doubt Fender or Marshall are working on creating amps without plugging them into speakers.

Hello Funkybot's Evil Twin

Funny thing is we are kind of looking at it the same only different? I'm not talking about making an amp with no speaker! What I really want to try to do first is? Make the amp using a real guitar speaker cabinet.
Long before I can think of mixing that guitar tone it starts at the source (the guitar) gets altered by the amp (I'm starting to, I think? get what people are saying about the tube feel?)
Then that altered tone is sent to a cabinet so I can hear the tone. I'm not saying the speaker\cabinet has no effect on the tone, its effect is huge (like you said about half the tone).

Just thinking that if the first step in the chain is right to begin with, the amp! The second half, the speakers! will be much more usefull in the whole amp setup? Then with the next step in the chain, The mic! Makes the total chain of what I want in the mix for the final recording. Thats what I mean by start at the front end and work it out from there to the final tone.

Peace
Fretted Synth

[FrettedSynth]

A nice guy just emailed me to let me know he did a review of FreeAmp2 Made me kind of happy! so I figured I would share it with others

http://musicant.net/main/index.php?opti ... 7&Itemid=2

Thanks to Ant for the nice review

Fretted Synth

[grymmjack]

well deserved joe.

[matthewjumps]

that is a great review

so let one final thing be very clear: so far, this is the best software amp simulator ever programmed. Period.

cant disagree with him

cant wait for v3 - if you add those new amp/drive types from drive5 it will rock even more

[guitarzan]

that is a great review

so let one final thing be very clear: so far, this is the best software amp simulator ever programmed. Period.

cant disagree with him

cant wait for v3 - if you add those new amp/drive types from drive5 it will rock even more

Yep - I agree with all of that: best amp sim, and the Drive5 thing!!. I have been working with Drive5 the last two days and I think you can mimic any distortion characteristics with that thing! I can't wait to try the dynamics improvement, because that is where it's at, for me. That's why I love the synth section on FreeAmp2 (mix a blooming enveloped signal with original, works great ) but it will be even better when dynamics are addressed directly!!

For those of you new to using impulse responses, the Line 6 POD XT Amps and Cabs IR's from Noisevault is a nice collection that works well with Drive5, I'm not saying they are the greatest IR's around, but there is a lot of variety in that one collection. The Line 6 Pod Impulses on the same page are pretty good too, but I haven't tried them with Drive5 yet.

I use Voxengo Boogex and I start with everything flat (Emphasis and Cut Filters flat and dragged out for full freq. response, Lows, Mids and Highs at 0db, Tone, Drive, and Dynamics all at 0, and Out at the midpoint, 0db) BUT - remember there is nothing wrong with tweaking Boogex to bring out the best of your impuse responses!! A little Drive and Dynamics, etc. can do wonders to add a dynamic sound/feel to static convolution!!

[markheath]

If I could have one feature request for the next version it would be for speaker emulations of smaller speakers (say 8"). An option for convolution of cabinet impulses would also be a very useful addition.

anyway, thanks for such an excellent free plugin. I downloaded the Amplitube 2 demo the other day and was not as impressed as I was expecting to be. I tried FreeAmp2 straight afterwards and though it didn't have the same diversity of tones, quality-wise it compared very well (in fact was free of a lot of the hiss and noise I was getting with Amplitube 2).