Someone pointed out that Ableton Live has a number of Timestretching options when it comes to the material that one would be working with ie Beat, Poly, etc.
Does this mean that Live uses *additional* algorithms or these various modes all part of the Elastique packaage ?
I did notice on the second screenshot that the work 'transient' was visible which Ableton Live would interpret as Beat mode ?
Any ideas ?
Thank you
T3 - AES New Feature Preview
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- KVRist
- 217 posts since 19 Oct, 2005 from Philly
O.k. I went to zplanes website. Kudos to Tracktion for giving people stretching and pitch shifting at least as good as Live and Cubase, which is fine for the odd clip here and there. However, those of us who have more intense demands, like myself, will still have to purchase third party dedicated apps. I tested Elastiqe Pro, and it was very good, formant preserving, didn't artefact when time/pitch was changed during playback. I guess it's to expensive a technology to license however.spacefox wrote:Here SOME INFO at the zplane site, developers of this algo. It's the same one used in Ableton Live.IRBY wrote:"Elastique Efficient"?spacefox wrote:Do you mean you don't already know that T3 will feature a new timestretching algo (Elastique Efficient)?IRBY wrote:Do you mean that you can automate tempo changes througout the duration of the edit ala Ableton Live or Melodyne?
If so, you all must have completely scrapped the old time stretch/pitch shift algorithms.
If so, you you haven't read this thread.
No. Haven't heard of that one.
I tried the Elastique Efficient demo as well and it does sound just as bad as Ableton does. It's allright if you set something at a new pitch or time and just leave it. But, if you want to do say tempo changes mid song, it chuffs and artefacts too badly at the points where things change.
Serrato, you can still count on my 550.00. I just hate having to bring my entire T2 edit into Pro Tools in order to use it.
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
zplane site doesnt mention samp ...
rob
slaintereferences
Experience the amazing quality of our élastique time stretching and pitch shifting engines in (listed alphabetically):
* ableton Live 5 (élastique efficient)
* acoustica MixCraft 2.5 (élastique efficient)
* ALCATech BPMStudio 5 (élastique efficient)
* ALCATech DigiScratch 2 (élastique efficient)
* Bias Inc. Peak 5 (élastique efficient)
* HighAndes Trakax 1 and higher (élastique SOLOIST & efficient)
* Image-Line FLStudio 5 and higher (élastique efficient)
* Native Instruments Kontakt 1.5 and higher (élastique SOLOIST V1)
* Native Instruments Intakt (élastique SOLOIST V1)
* Native Instruments Traktor 2 (élastique efficient V1)
* überschall Elastik loop player (élastique Pro)
* Zero-X BeatQuantizer (PolyStretcher) 1 (élastique efficient)
rob-
- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- KVRist
- 217 posts since 19 Oct, 2005 from Philly
Can't use Izotope Radius. I don't wan't to do offline processing. I want to do it right inside of a DAW. Radius only integrates into Logics' time/pitch stuff if I'm correct.ttoz wrote:f**k serato radius kills it. r we talking mac or pc here?
does anyone know if samp uses elastique pro or efficient?
I'm running on P.C., so Logic is of course a no go.
I've heard Radius, and it's on par with Serato, but I've heard reviews that Radius has a bit more complex user interface, although I think when it's integrated into Logic, you just use Logics time/pitch interface.
Either way, I agree with you. Too many high end apps. are using that crappy Elastique Efficient. Shoot, I'd pay the extra 150-250.00 for a DAW if it licensed the time/pitch algos' from Serato, Radius, or even Zplanes Elastique Pro.
Just to have it all integrated is worth alot to me.
And for what it's worth, Melodyne is fantastic for fine tuning vocals and some instruments, but I've NEVER been able to get it to give me great pitch/time change results on multitrack projects like it claims to be able to do. It's time algos are alot better than it's pitch algos though. It's time changing is better than Ableton, but it's pitch changing is worse. Even on a simple, single monophonic sound source, when you pitch it in Melodyne, it thins it all out and it sounds obviously processed. And, that's only at like one semitone worth of change.
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- KVRAF
- 1615 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
Melodyne can also strip the highs off alittle... I can't use it for lead vocals.
The fact is that there are limitations to the technology - you need somehow to add or subtract cycles to make pitch go up or down - the traditional method was just to cut and paste - with carefull fading and scaling you get Autotune - ok. the analysis and synthesis alternatives use either fft or lpc analysis to figure out either the overtone content or formant and exitation model - one difficulty there has to do with windowing: as the windows which are being analysed and resynthesized get smaller the error in the analysis grows - as they get larger the resynthesis gets blurry. Different window shapes also have an effect. You end up just having to take the best compromise you can get: there is no way to move from the time domain to the pitch domain and back without error. Finally as you look for more detail, computational power can get to be a factor.
Myself, I use stretching only when necessary to fix little things here and there. Or when I don't mind if it sounds wierd.
The fact is that there are limitations to the technology - you need somehow to add or subtract cycles to make pitch go up or down - the traditional method was just to cut and paste - with carefull fading and scaling you get Autotune - ok. the analysis and synthesis alternatives use either fft or lpc analysis to figure out either the overtone content or formant and exitation model - one difficulty there has to do with windowing: as the windows which are being analysed and resynthesized get smaller the error in the analysis grows - as they get larger the resynthesis gets blurry. Different window shapes also have an effect. You end up just having to take the best compromise you can get: there is no way to move from the time domain to the pitch domain and back without error. Finally as you look for more detail, computational power can get to be a factor.
Myself, I use stretching only when necessary to fix little things here and there. Or when I don't mind if it sounds wierd.
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
Ok, so ttoz, are you ONLY against Pace and iLok now? But not other dongle apps? I've lost track.
I heard that T3 is going to be the ONLY audio software left that doesn't use Pace iLok by the time it's released. So it's a no brainer, you're stuck!
Brent
I heard that T3 is going to be the ONLY audio software left that doesn't use Pace iLok by the time it's released. So it's a no brainer, you're stuck!
Brent
My host is better than your host
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1600 posts since 1 Apr, 2003 from Seattle, WA
Well, there is no new of doing this yet. But Render Clip still works. It's on the list.ttoz wrote:oh and Beno, PLEASE OH PLEASE can you tell me if one can merge audio parts into a new file yet? lots of people's questions answered excpt mine. (ok i was really rude here once and maybe you hate me)
Ben
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- KVRist
- 217 posts since 19 Oct, 2005 from Philly
I sent an email to Zplane asking them if the Elastique Pro technology is already in any DAW out there. They told me not yet, but that it WOULD be in an upcoming DAW. They also told me that they do not sell their software directly, only license the tech to 3rd party audio software companies. They also told me they were not allowed to disclose which DAW would be containing the new Elastic Pro algo as it (the DAW) has not yet been released. Lastly, he told me the only way I can get the Elastic Pro algo's into my favorite host is to essentialy e-mail my host and harrass them about paying up the extra for the licensing of the Pro Algos.semiquaver wrote:Melodyne can also strip the highs off alittle... I can't use it for lead vocals.
The fact is that there are limitations to the technology - you need somehow to add or subtract cycles to make pitch go up or down - the traditional method was just to cut and paste - with carefull fading and scaling you get Autotune - ok. the analysis and synthesis alternatives use either fft or lpc analysis to figure out either the overtone content or formant and exitation model - one difficulty there has to do with windowing: as the windows which are being analysed and resynthesized get smaller the error in the analysis grows - as they get larger the resynthesis gets blurry. Different window shapes also have an effect. You end up just having to take the best compromise you can get: there is no way to move from the time domain to the pitch domain and back without error. Finally as you look for more detail, computational power can get to be a factor.
Myself, I use stretching only when necessary to fix little things here and there. Or when I don't mind if it sounds wierd.
I wonder if the Pro algos are going to be in an upcoming iteration of an established DAW, or a completely new product. Hmm...perhaps it's T3 and Mackies just being coy about it?
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
not if you change the end time of the clip (doesnt work if you move the clip afterwards i know but its a half working solution) ...
... if nothing else you can ... change clip end point >>> render clip to new track >>> delete original clip ... move new clip onto track >>> delete newly created track ...
... bit of a pain and slower than a single 'merge audio clips' (which i agree would be cool) click but does the job ...
slainte rob
... if nothing else you can ... change clip end point >>> render clip to new track >>> delete original clip ... move new clip onto track >>> delete newly created track ...
... bit of a pain and slower than a single 'merge audio clips' (which i agree would be cool) click but does the job ...
slainte
rob