Looks like a Finalizer Plug In

[Compyfox]

Nonono kritikon you got it wrong this time.

I'm not saying that I'm a crappy musician (though I say that to myself a lot lately, cause I haven't finished much stuff in the last couple of years - though my engineerings are great, at least that's what all my friends say). I'm critisizing the general "blah blah" from the media and the so called "professionals".

You know, they say "this and that has to be standard and you have to have it, else you're nothing". And those who stick to their own style, techniques and equipment (like I do) have to suffer in several ways. One of them is the critism to have crappy equipment - even though that isn't true, Waves is in no way better than Voxengo and Kjaerhus (lately even crysonic!), it just costs more. And the other thing that's also bound to that, is the thing that "if" you have that (crappy) equipment, you get no deals cause some fgt decided that certain "tools" are standard, which you don't have, and therefore nobody wants you to do anything on their tracks.


I had to learn that myself the hard way, and I've seen that over and over. From one of the (fun) remixing communities I'm coming from, there was one who was like "you have a nice equipment, but get rid of your Behringer crap" to someone who offered engineering jobs. And I was like "the hell?" - Like I said, I use Behringer equipment (a mic preamp, two analog mixers of the Eurodesk/Rack series, soon the BCR/BCF and the Minimon) - does that make me a crappy engineer automatically?! I'd say no.


Also, I adapted the K-System by Mr. Katz (from Digital Domain). Still I'm being bitched at "make it louder - it's too quiet" and I'm like "I won't or do you want your tracks to be squarewaves and without any dynamics?!" and then the client/listeners are once again "you suck". Does that make me automatically a crappy engineer cause I'm sticking to a standard that maintains the sound and clarity of the early 90ies, doesn't kill your ears in an instant and works even for DVD streams?! I'd say no.


This is what I'm critisizing. We small studio users/engineers have to suffer from what the media ports in other heads, or the so called "big time engineers" set in terms of standards (among them Mr. Nichols!). You don't use/have this and that - you're automatically not "professional" and are nothing more than a mediocre engineer.

YEAH RIGHT! [/sarcasm]


So yeah, I'm not saying I'm crappy, it just pisses me off how the "game" is played. However the war we're fighting was already lost before it even started. And this is the most sadening and annoying thing.

[SuitcaseOfLizards]

I can't wait for the "Eardrum-break-alizer"!

I get plenty fine results from my Voxengo and Kjaerhus plugins, and I have yet to have any non-musician ask me what plugins I used on what song!

[TotcProductions]

Another smokescreen by Elemental Audio and Dickhole Digital.

[Lagrange]

Kinda reminds me of db audiowares db-M.. Well in looks anyway.. Oh Dickhols you little biting dawg you!..

L

[Midiworks]

yes, they were cool at the time,
maybe they are even today.

[HalloweenJack]

Hoh-lee Curhapp on a Stick! What is it with this raging Egomaniac? Why does he insist in the copy on all his plug-ins that HE designed the algos and then used the plug-ins on COUNTLESS hit records. Y'know it might be nice to report these horse-bleep claims to the good ol' FTC. It really is against the LAW to engage in misrepresentation in advertising...

[VicDiesel]

"Make it loud, please
Using the advanced limiting algorithms from our highly acclaimed Finis plug-in ensures maximum audio levels - if that's needed - while preserving audio dynamics. Using Detailer along with Dynam-izer will give you the loudest mixes on the planet, and leave your dynamics intact.
"

Did he forget to edit that "Finis"? That's kind of a slip....

Victor.

[dragonsoul]

[quote="Compyfox"]Actually it's not a mood point, especially not if you enhance that with magazines and so called pro's (that just crawled out of nowhere) start rambling on how good a certain studio/equipment is, how it has to be, etc.

The point is, and I'm among those people, even though young musicians look for cheaper alternatives to get their stuff mixed up or to the masses, they're still "shaped" by what the industry says. For example: Keys and Keyboards germany always say "this and that is standard, even though it's old". And that's always involved with Waves, loexicon, Focusrite and SSL - if you don't have that (or any of that), you're nothing, your sound is nothing, therefore your studio is nothing - it's crap.

Or what about that bullsh*t with Behringer? I use Behringer Equipment. It's cheap, it's transparent, it works (Behringer Control) - hell I'd even use the DX Mixer if it'd still be available. Or the thing with "monitor controller". There#s the Mackie Bigknob for like 350bucks, and there's like the Behringer Minicontrol for like 89bucks - features are the same, design is a bit different (so is the frequency response - however minimal) - but it's a total "no no" in a "serious studio environment".

quote]

I totally agree...but Behringer...you've got to sit on your ears if you don't hear what ANY piece of behringer equipment does to your signal path.
It's the worst...
Strangely Mackie got the same reputation in the states as behringer has in europe.
Still i wouldn't put piece of this ripped of shit anywhere near my chain...before or after ad/da.
Buy a voxengo marquis for the money...speaking of plugs.
Regards.

[politcat]

so bashing Roger Nichols has become a past-time on kvr. get on the bandwagon! if nothing else you'll sound like you know wtf you're talking about. lol

[Compyfox]

I totally agree...but Behringer...you've got to sit on your ears if you don't hear what ANY piece of behringer equipment does to your signal path.
It's the worst...

There we have it once again: "OMG Behringer rips off stuff (in the US?!), it sounds like shit, it's usage is shit - I wouldn't even use it!"

You know what? I don't care if the microphone ports are utter crap, that's why I use a seperate mic preamp. It works nice if you know how to handle it, it's transparent and by no means a ripoff of something!

Without Behringer we'd still listen to mostly crappy pop musicians on the internet and radio. You have to admit that it opened (and still opens) doors for some very good (hobby) musicians. And you know what? Unless you're f*cking sponsored by daddy or won in the lottery, I'm fairly sure you have to go for the best price/effort section yourself, too. Or can you sponsor me a Yamaha 01x digital mixer desk that can also act as controller for Cubase? If so, I'll gladly use it.

And I tell you what, I'm also fairly sure that some studios still have some "unwanted corpses" in the basement in form of an old Behringer FX devices or even mixers.


What's next? Blame me for the Terratec hardware that I use? Terratec is shit and M-Audio is way better? Yeah right, and Queen Mom is my auntie.

THIS is what I was talking about - the very essential thing of my last comments! The endresult is important, not how you made it or which equipment you used to archieve that. *duh!*

Strangely Mackie got the same reputation in the states as behringer has in europe.
Still i wouldn't put piece of this ripped of shit anywhere near my chain...before or after ad/da.

Sorry but I can come with the counter, that Mackie colors the sound unnecessarily and you often paid for the name of the firm only rather than the "overwhelming" hardware.

Buy a voxengo marquis for the money...speaking of plugs.

Okay... But too bad...
I already have like 5-8 different compressors and limiters from freeware to payware. Kjaerhus, GVST, Buz, Crysonic, TbT and CamelPhat Free - just to name a few.


God I really should stop rambling!

[kritikon]

Also, I adapted the K-System by Mr. Katz (from Digital Domain). Still I'm being bitched at "make it louder - it's too quiet" and I'm like "I won't or do you want your tracks to be squarewaves and without any dynamics?!" and then the client/listeners are once again "you suck". Does that make me automatically a crappy engineer cause I'm sticking to a standard that maintains the sound and clarity of the early 90ies, doesn't kill your ears in an instant and works even for DVD streams?! I'd say no.

Well there ya go. I would imagine that's more of a reason for you losing certain jobs than simply using a certain brand of gear. It's just the way of the world now...many customers want loud tracks full stop. You either choose to do it and take the money or you refuse and lose the job. And when you look at budget studios...TBH many punters go to them simply because they have little or no h/w and they want to see what some h/w and some engineering can do for them. So having any h/w is a plus whether it's Behringer or not.

I totally agree...but Behringer...you've got to sit on your ears if you don't hear what ANY piece of behringer equipment does to your signal path.
It's the worst...

No. I agree with Compyfox on some issues there. Some Behringer is exactly at the price point it sells for (i.e. it does sound cheap and nasty, but other h/w is perfectly useable in any circumstance. Not all Behringer is crap by a long shot.

I don't much like the mixers...I found them noisy and the Eq was very muddy for any type of boosting. Crosschannel bleeding was TBH quite disgraceful. Behringer Composer (was a best-seller at one point IIRC?)...quite capable at the actual compressing and limiting and gating, but loses a helluvalot of top end. To not notice that, I agree you would have to be deaf almost. For a "master" comp...I wouldn't master anything with it. Perfectly good for squashing and pumping channels though.

BUt...I still use a Behringer quad gate after 10 years...it's fine and dandy, it's reliable and it was a very good buy. I've heard some of the FX units and they are incredible value and not half bad. Better than many other budget FX units...beat the pants off some of the Alesis shit that was almost studio standard in its day. I know of people that use those midi-automatable patchbays they released a way back, and they like them - still going strong. I've got an old Behringer FX unit from way back when they must have started...and it has the odd reverb setting that is so unique, I still use it today (absolutely perfectomundo for dub). The stereo enhancement algo is nice too. For some Behringer gear you get an awful lot for your money and some units deliver quality way above their price. You just have to pick and choose. SOme units do sound pretty rough, but what do you expect for the price? They don't intend to compete with the high-end gear and never will. But to simply say all Behringer gear is bad, actually gives away that you've never used much of their gear. Give them credit for some of what they do. I'll pay for quality things like compressors, FX, desks etc when I want quality, but I'll also pay peanuts for Behringer when I simply want something bread'n'butter that I could waste triple the money on with other companies.

When you want absolute precision you don't use Behringer, and when you want certain character in esoteric things like compressors and Eqs etc, then you also don't use Behringer.

But for demos etc, the desks are perfectly OK. Gating, amps, headphone splitters, some FX, many of those items you'd be stupid not to use Behringer. Even their monitors seem to be getting better. They're simply not all bad, not all good. I've regretted buying the odd unit, pleased with others.

[Compyfox]

Thanks for defending me in terms of the Behringer stuff, kritikon. At least someone who appreciates this firm.

Well there ya go. I would imagine that's more of a reason for you losing certain jobs than simply using a certain brand of gear. It's just the way of the world now...many customers want loud tracks full stop. You either choose to do it and take the money or you refuse and lose the job. And when you look at budget studios...TBH many punters go to them simply because they have little or no h/w and they want to see what some h/w and some engineering can do for them. So having any h/w is a plus whether it's Behringer or not.

Well, TBH if I can't convince my client to go for the K-System and he still insits on "making it louder", I say "okay - I just offered you alternatives, customer is king". It's not like I completely ditch them.

Then again, that other problem still applies, like it happened with the last couple of posts. *sigh* Something's gotten wrong in the industry right from the start, and it'll take a while till we at least "win" one part of the war... and that'd be acknowledgment of "price friendly tools" compared to "overpriced" stuff.

[lharless]

linear phase eq (free for anyone through several portals), and a broadband limiter like W1. just keep it simple. you don't have to pay big bucks to make sure your music sucks.

[DWb]

In the past I've seen fancy DJs named all over covers on projects...and I've seen what's done in the studio, and the fancy DJ has done f**k all. They've just bought his name, and tried hard to be polite to him by telling him in a nice way to get the hell out of the way of the serious stuff going on. You would be amazed by how many "name" DJs/ producers/ remixers know shit-all about how to actually engineer music. They may be creative and may well have creative input...but that's completely different from knowing what frequencies do what to what, and how to set up a compressor. I wouldn't let most DJs anywhere near a compressor - they assume the more it lights up, the more it's doing good things.

I always assumed that the point of the 'DJ Monkeyface remix' thing was to stick generic oonce oonce oonce beats over the top, sorry, creatively reimagine the original. In order to flog more shite to gullible teenagers without having to bother going back into the studio or writing another tune, sorry, in order to bring out a different side of the tune and give it extra dancefloor power.

In any case, I thought 'remixing' in this sense and 'remixing' in the engineering sense were two rather different things...

[lharless]

get your mix right and then maximize it. don't go overboard. just use a broadband limiter. take it to -1.0 and you'll compete with everybody else and you'll love yourself in the morning.