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[james0tucson]

Yes, my opinion as a developer. And opinion of a very good friend who was working on one of the upcoming OSX features that are developed by another company. He's dealt with OSX internals in a bit of a more profound way that I had. And I very much trust his judgement.

Well the way I write code is sort of similar to you. I use SourceInsight on Windoze over samba-mounted files on a Linux machine. All editing is in SourceInsight (which I think is the best code editor in the world) All compilation and debugging is done on the Linux side. GDB is ugly but not that you have a lot of choice there.

GDB on the Mac is hosted under XCode and is a joy to use.

On Linux I use DDD; I find it not so ugly. Then again, I have no problem with console gdb, provided I can run under screen or some other terminal that lets me program keys at liberty.

I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all; and I'm not as opinionated as I come across in the forum. But I have been programming since 1978; professionally since 1992; and I think I know a thing or two about the process. On the other hand, my entry into audio software consists of a few vague ideas with no projects, discussions on kvr, and little else. My game software has all been done for academic work and personal stuff, nothing big there. I make my living writing business software; and I don't plan to quit my day job

So I should probably defer to people who actually have taken the plunge and write music software.

[james0tucson]

It has less to do with their lack of a Mac version and more to do with their lack of an attitude regarding a Mac version.

how does it even matter if you'd love or hate to do a mac version, when you simply can't?

You never hear a professional simply dismiss something claiming "it can't be done" or even "they can't do it."

I have absolutely no experience on mac programming, also no consideration for that snobbish computer/company

You are highlighting the notion that your shop is small, possibly even a one-man operation. That's cool, if it's the case. I honestly thought you had a few developers. I'm not saying you should abandon 7.0 development and go make a Mac version (PLEASE DON'T!). But you dismiss the idea out-of-hand as if it is completely out of the question. Perfectly happy to burn a bridge to a platform with a fast adoption rate. That's real money, you know.

but it's just personal taste. I thanks Microsoft for giving a high priority to backwards compatibility, both as a user & as a programmer.

I defer, as my professional life targets software for Solaris. Rarely ever is there a compatibility problem in my world.

[james0tucson]

The "less mac users" debate simply doesn't hold up in audio software. Live is 50/50 mac/PC, so is Native instruments...

I want to see metrics on the adoption rate of new Macs.

When I go to conferences, I see Macbook Pro's. Developers who have not even been huge Mac fans are using Mac laptops nowadays. They are heavily campaigning in consumer advertising markets. There *must* be some tremendous growth there.

Mac was a popular platform among "creative" folks before (that includes musicians!)

They are advertising *heavily*.

Their perceived quality and perceived VFM has increased substantially over the past 2 years.

It pays to advertise. It pays to be first-to-market, or at least "early" in a product niche.

Ignore an opportunity and it *will* go away.

[warp x]

hey been a long time fruity loops user infact since i can remeber it ever been realsed but i just made the pretty common move to MAC OSX for reasons that its just more stable than windows but i SHOCKED! to find image-line havent raleased a native version for the OSX system does anyone know of any future releases??????? would be a great help

actually, I don't get it. Now that you finally have a decent computer, why not get some serious software?
Everybody knows that it is only possible to make music on a mac, so why worry about pc apps.

[machinesworking]

So yes, its possible to port FL to other platforms without requiring a complete rewrite. However, is it reasonable?

No. It is a tremendous effort, much more than the effort behind a FL Studio point release. Considering that there are far less Mac users than Windows users, its just Capitalism.

The "less mac users" debate simply doesn't hold up in audio software. Live is 50/50 mac/PC, so is Native instruments..... Logic had more mac users than PC users before Apple bought them..... the list of valid reasons why saying there isn't an audience for mac versions is a falsehood is long.

You're still wrong. All the Cakewalk users (alot!), all the FL users, all the Orion users, etc. are sitting on PCs. What Mac-only hosts are there? I can only think of DP and I doubt its used as much as Sonar is.

About what? I simply said that the market share is bigger than the percentage of the population that own macs, statistics from NI and Ableton that I was quoted, straight from a higher up at Ableton plainly reveal that. The is was two years ago BTW, long before the Intel macs.
None of that changes because every budding rock star who wants to record his band is sold the guitar player edition of Soner when he walks into Guitar Center.

[Toxikator]

Now that you finally have a decent computer, why not get some serious software?
Everybody knows that it is only possible to make music on a mac

First of all, Mac's as "decent computers"?

second of all... you know what? I'm not going to waste my time with the second of all.

And IL isn't a one-man operation; there are a grand total of two devs.

[james0tucson]

The "less mac users" debate simply doesn't hold up in audio software. Live is 50/50 mac/PC, so is Native instruments...

I want to see metrics on the adoption rate of new Macs.

When I go to conferences, I see Macbook Pro's. Developers who have not even been huge Mac fans are using Mac laptops nowadays. They are heavily campaigning in consumer advertising markets. There *must* be some tremendous growth there.

Mac was a popular platform among "creative" folks before (that includes musicians!)

They are advertising *heavily*.

Their perceived quality and perceived VFM has increased substantially over the past 2 years.

It pays to advertise. It pays to be first-to-market, or at least "early" in a product niche.

Ignore an opportunity and it *will* go away.

[warp x]

Now that you finally have a decent computer, why not get some serious software?
Everybody knows that it is only possible to make music on a mac

First of all, Mac's as "decent computers"?

second of all... you know what? I'm not going to waste my time with the second of all.

And IL isn't a one-man operation; there are a grand total of two devs.

Exactly, macs are actual computers, whereas pc's are no more than typewriters, totally unsuitable for any creative work.
Didn't you know that?

[Toxikator]

Well, I heard it from a Jimmy Fallon lookalike bantering wittily with an old man in a suit on television...

Seriously, show me a Mac that you can take the back off of, stuff new RAM into, a new hard drive, a new graphics card, a new onboard soundcard... show me a mac that you can upgrade for 5 years.

My PC is an old Grandfather's axe. I will soon be getting a new motherboard with a Core2Duox6800... when that happens, nothing but the fan and the case will be left over from the old machine. Show me a Mac that you don't have to throw out and replace when you want an upgrade and we'll talk.

Look, Macs are successful BECAUSE they're shitty computers. They're basically run by the MCP of Tron; they don't let you make choices for fear you might make bad ones. They're simple and noncustomizable and have a terribly short range of software in the grand scheme of things, which causes their 'stability' myth. They're computers for the computer illiterate, which is why they're so succesful with musicians and other artists; artists don't know the first damn thing about computers.

[warp x]

artists don't know the first damn thing about computers.

Ah, I see. so you are not an artist?

[Toxikator]

Witty retort.

But I still haven't seen any sign from YOU that Macs are suitable for indepth hardware and software modification.

[warp x]

Witty retort.

But I still haven't seen any sign from YOU that Macs are suitable for indepth hardware and software modification.

I wouldn't know, and don't really care, because I AM an artist.

[Toxikator]

Exactly, and if you don't know who are you to say that Macs are "decent computers", and that the apps on them constitute "serious software"? If you admit to being computer-ignorant then all you have the authority to claim is that the software works for you, which doesn't speak to its quality or the quality of the machines anymore than the opinion of the illiterate speaks to the quality of Shakespeare.

[james0tucson]

They're simple and noncustomizable and have a terribly short range of software in the grand scheme of things, which causes their 'stability' myth.

Now that they run a POSIX-compliant version of UNIX, they have a serious subset of the software that, for example, Linux and Solaris users enjoy.


But you are speaking from opinion, not from experience, and you somehow expect to persuade people with that kind of comment.

Yeah, Mac mainboards are not commodity components like the DIY market has. So? If that's your main feature, so be it -- you made your choice. I would not fault you for choosing an automobile that allowed you to dial-in dragstrip parameters or to add aftermarket performance parts either. That wouldn't make it the best car for someone who wants to go to work, go shopping, go on trips, or take their dogs to the park, either.

But if you are trying to say the Mac platform is somehow *inferior* (be that either the PPC or the X86), you are going to need a better argument.

I'm sort of wishing I had not disclosed to the forum that I'm a MacOSX developer.

[parma]

Seriously, show me a Mac that you can take the back off of, stuff new RAM into, a new hard drive, a new graphics card, a new onboard soundcard... show me a mac that you can upgrade for 5 years.

um, things I've installed very easily in my G4: new memory, new hard drive, new optical drive, new soundcard, even a new frickin CPU.

not a single problem with any of these additions. The were all very easily accomplished. I used this computer from 2001 until just recently (when I replaced it with a Mac Pro to which I've already added a hard drive and RAM) - so there's your 5 years.