u-he

Jeremy_NSL · Post by **Jeremy_NSL** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:43 pm

I think it would be cool if Zebra2 offered a single-cycle sample resynthesis. Cakewalk Rapture has done this REALLY well. If you load any sample below 3000 samples (I think), it simply resynthesizes it and maps it across the keyboard. Sounds near-perfect.

beej · Post by **beej** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:44 pm

Er.. Rapture is a sample-player with a synthesis engine. It has the ability to load short samples as the basis for it's synthesis section - are you sure there's resynthesis going on? Resynthesis is very different to variable-rate sample playback...

Jeremy_NSL · Post by **Jeremy_NSL** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:47 pm

Yes, I do understand the difference and yes I'm sure.

beej · Post by **beej** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:46 pm

Interesting... Does it save the resynthesised samples out again?

beej · Post by **beej** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:24 am

Hmm - can you point me to some info regarding this resynthesis feature in Rapture? I cannot find any documentation of this anywhere. The web info on Cakewalk says it will load and playback samples/multisamples etc but nothing on resynthesising samples. Does it talk about this in the manual?

Jeremy_NSL · Post by **Jeremy_NSL** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:55 am

Its somewhat undocumented. I think its referred to as the 'wavetable' functionality - which is really a misnomer. I don't know if you can try with the demo, but yes this really does work.

I used this feature when designing samples for the Cakewalk Expansion Pack 2 for Rapture

k-bird · Post by **k-bird** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:14 am

replicator wrote:It can't be easy to draw these waveforms by hand.

On the other end of the scale i've got an ARP Solina String Ensemble and the waveforms on that are very simple-looking. However try as i might i can't draw them in Zebra 2 to get them sounding right at all. They just don't have the right edge. Ah well.

It's cool to be able to get back into directly drawing waveforms though.

beej · Post by **beej** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:52 am

Jeremy_NSL wrote:Its somewhat undocumented. I think its referred to as the 'wavetable' functionality - which is really a misnomer. I don't know if you can try with the demo, but yes this really does work.

Interesting. Perhaps the including wavetable single-cycle "samples" were made with this feature?

Does z3ta do this too, out of interest, or is it a Rapture only thing?

replicator · Post by **replicator** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:59 pm

k-bird wrote:On the other end of the scale i've got an ARP Solina String Ensemble and the waveforms on that are very simple-looking. However try as i might i can't draw them in Zebra 2 to get them sounding right at all. They just don't have the right edge. Ah well.

The spesific hardware do something to the sound before output. The basic waveform are modified by pitch (via the keyboard), in harmonic content (via the Filter section and Resonance or Emphasis control) and in amplitude or volume. Further alteration are introduced via an Envelope Generator.

In addition to that the timbre of a pure saw wave produced by any analog synth are drifting, changing in time thats why you get some color in the sound which is hard to replicate.

I dont know nothing about sample resynthesis, but maybe some of the solution can be found there. If eg. Zebra recalculate a saw waveform, so each time you struck a note you play one of 16 different variations of the same saw. I guess realtime calculation of a sample (endless variations of a saw), would have to high impact on cpu usage. However Urs posted a nice wave "SawRand.h2p" which changes slightly each time you load it. It works nicely.

Here is another wave to draw within zebra "minimoogsaw":

[img=http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9986 ... cn8.th.jpg]

Best regards:)

Replicator

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:51 pm

Urs wrote:The topic of "Sampling" is one of the next in u-he's masterplan to take over the world of audio processing. For efficiency reasons - as in a 1-person company human resources are tight - all aspects of sample propelleration will be covered when time is due, which will start shortly after embarrassing the competition in terms of analogue filter modeling, delay, reverbration and dynamics processing. Stay tuned, these features will arrive, just don't expect a clear When.

how modest

kodama · Post by **kodama** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:47 pm

Urs, this is a bit diiferent from having to make a sampler, we just wanna be able to load cycles like Toxic, Sytrus, Rapture, etc...

Also, I would love to be able to have popup menus to select from certain cycles and envelopes to make quick presets (I know you can copy/paste).

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:03 am

kodama wrote:Urs, this is a bit diiferent from having to make a sampler, we just wanna be able to load cycles like Toxic, Sytrus, Rapture, etc...

Sure, but it's all related. I think it's not done by reading plain .wav files and pressing them into the 16 wave slots.

For a nice quality I'd see something different from just filling up 16 x 128 samples/harmonics as in the drawable waveforms. I'd rather say 2048 samples per cycle and some kind of meta controls to enhance the waveform.

The algorithm should take .wav files (and other formats such as .aiff, .sd2) of arbitrary length, find zero crossings, resample them, maybe do optional formant shifting (if I get that baked) and may even work out some grainy scheme if desired.

That pretty much involves many technologies that are also required for sampling.

The playback is the smallest part here, as Zebra's oscillators are basically dynamic resynthesizers of the waveform/spectrum that's drawn.

And of course, the gui framework has to be enhanced for drag'n'drop, stuff like that. There's a whole bunch of logistic considerations behind that, and it has to be designed to work in a universal way for all kinds of similar applications.

Cheers,

Urs

replicator · Post by **replicator** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:36 pm

Hi!

It will be very interesting to see what plans Urs have in the sampling area. I hope it will be some kind of oscillator based system, that mimics the sample's properties in many ways. Where a single-cycle sample maps automatically across keyboard, the possibility to manipulate a single waveform (edit the amplitudes of the harmonics in any way you wish, and the possibility to manipulate the sampled waveform in a graphical editor), morphing between different samples, and the possibility to export, import different audio formats. If it will be a standalone application I hope that the features in Zebra2 will be kept, so you can combine the great oscillators and filters that already exists with the sampled wave oscillators you import.

The sum of the whole is greater than its parts!

Best regards:)

Replicator

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:44 pm

Jeremy_NSL wrote:Its somewhat undocumented. I think its referred to as the 'wavetable' functionality - which is really a misnomer. I don't know if you can try with the demo, but yes this really does work.

I used this feature when designing samples for the Cakewalk Expansion Pack 2 for Rapture

Is this what they mean by their Expression engine?

http://www.cakewalk.com/Press/ExpressionEngine.asp

(I'm sure last time I looked they used the term "Emotion engine" - must have had a few problems with that

)

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:51 pm

Says it uses resampling but I can't see any mention of resynthesis

u-he

KVR Audio

User waveforms