Most Awesome Sounding Chord Progressions Ever Vol 1

[Toxikator]

In fact, let's go ahead and reinforce what I said:

Source: The first page from the Google Search that defined it one way or the other

In the theoretical analysis of music, Roman Numerals are employed to indicate the chord within the tonality of the composition. The Roman Numerals are placed under the staff inline with the chord in question. In Tertian Harmonic System of Western Music (harmony based on thirds), chords symbols represent the first, third, and fifth notes of the tonality. The one (I) chord always represents the tonality of the composition.

[nuffink]

Look, do I need to bust out some 101 course to prove this to you?

Yes you do.

That example has both a key signature and naturals indicating that the intervals need flatting. In the absence of these (like at kvr or any other place you might not have access to either) the romans are always referred to the major scale.

[nuffink]

In fact, let's go ahead and reinforce what I said:

Source: The first page from the Google Search that defined it one way or the other

In the theoretical analysis of music, Roman Numerals are employed to indicate the chord within the tonality of the composition. The Roman Numerals are placed under the staff inline with the chord in question. In Tertian Harmonic System of Western Music (harmony based on thirds), chords symbols represent the first, third, and fifth notes of the tonality. The one (I) chord always represents the tonality of the composition.

The only thing you're reinforcing is that you don't know what you're talking about. Something that really doesn't need any reinforcing.

[Toxikator]

When you write "i" as the tonic the natural minor scale is IMPLIED. Damn, I wouldn't have thought it was that hard to grasp.

Look, you come from one tradition, I come from one tradition. I have no problem with your way of doing it, it seems to make a lot of sense and for the sake of clarity I might start using it. But it is NOT the only way to do it, and it wasn't even the FIRST way to do it, so don't condescend.

[nuffink]

When you write "i" as the tonic the natural minor scale is IMPLIED. Damn, I wouldn't have thought it was that hard to grasp.

Look, you come from one tradition, I come from one tradition. I have no problem with your way of doing it, it seems to make a lot of sense and for the sake of clarity I might start using it. But it is NOT the only way to do it, and it wasn't even the FIRST way to do it, so don't condescend.

We don't come from different traditions. You simply don't know what you're talking about. And, since you'd always rather argue the toss when somebody points out that you're wrong, the chances are you never will.

[Sascha Franck]

So, Toxikator, even if your methods may be correct for classical analysis, what would you think of being the more appropriate analysis style for a forum such as KVR - the classical or the jazz/rock/pop style? I mean, have you met all that much classical composers over here? And do you think the origal poster was asking for some classical cadences?

Personally, while probably not showing the relationships of chords to each other that clearly (such as "tP"s and the likes in classical analysis), I defenitely prefer the JRP style.

[Toxikator]

So, Toxikator, even if your methods may be correct for classical analysis, what would you think of being the more appropriate analysis style for a forum such as KVR - the classical or the jazz/rock/pop style? I mean, have you met all that much classical composers over here? And do you think the origal poster was asking for some classical cadences?

The classical tradition I think holds over more in some cases. I mean, not many people are writing classical, but then not that many people are writing jazz, either. I think the OP had some experimental absynth patches, the first thing that popped into my head was film-score oriented harmony, built for slow pads... and the film scoring world is heavily neo-classical (or at least not jazz/rock/pop)

Personally, while probably not showing the relationships of chords to each other that clearly (such as "tP"s and the likes in classical analysis), I defenitely prefer the JRP style.

Honestly, it makes sense if you know to always consider the scales as major, but I don't. When the tonality is minor I consider the scales as minor as well, which is important since it would seem that assuming the major scale when notating harmonies would mean assuming the major scale when playing melodies, but then I didn't study under jazz.

Honestly, I have no problem with the system. Really, just with Nuffink and his continued insistence that all music is Jazz and that his method is the only way to do it. You know, because until the 1900s no one ever notated or analyzed music.

[nuffink]

Honestly, I have no problem with the system. Really, just with Nuffink and his continued insistence that all music is Jazz and that his method is the only way to do it. You know, because until the 1900s no one ever notated or analyzed music.

Look. You're wrong. There's no classical vs jazz tradition involved. It's just you misunderstanding how it works. Not a problem, everybody gets stuff wrong. The trick is learning from your mistakes.

[Toxikator]

Okay, let's say for the sake of argument that you're right. Why then is all classical music analyzed and notated my way? I would honestly like to know.

If it turns out that there's a perfectly reasonable explanation I swear to god I'll recant and do it your way, and even call you Nuffink the Wise if that's your thing

[nuffink]

Okay, let's say for the sake of argument that you're right. Why then is all classical music analyzed and notated my way? I would honestly like to know.

It isn't. Simple as that. You've just misunderstood.

[seamoss]

The only thing you're reinforcing is that you don't know what you're talking about. Something that really doesn't need any reinforcing.

damn...I almost spilled my coffee after reading that one

[nuffink]

Ok, to make up for that little bun fight, I'll expand upon…

2nds up/7ths down (I-ii),(IV-V) etc...
3rds down/6ths up (I-vi),(IV-ii) etc...
4ths up/5ths down (i-IV),(V-I) etc...

Mix and match to extend at will.

… and hopefully show why it's so useful.

The following assumes diatonic harmony.

First of all up/down.
From any chord root you can move to one of six other roots in two directions. So moving up a 2nd (C - D) is equivalent to moving down a 7th (it's still C - D)
Moving down a 2nd / up a 7th (D - C) is a different chord progression

From any chord their are 6 of these possible root movements. They are not used equally in western harmony, some are much more common than others.

The common root movements...

4ths up/5ths down (I-IV, ii-V, iii-vi, IV-vii, V-I, vi-ii, vii-iii) This is the most common type of root movement in western music.
2nds up/7ths down (I-ii, ii-iii, iii-IV, IV-V, V-vi, vi-vii, vii-1)
3rds down/6ths up (I-vi, ii-vii, iii-I, IV-ii, V-iii, iv-IV, vii-V)


The less common root movements, the inverse of the above...

5ths up/4ths down (I-V, ii-vi, iii-vii, IV-I, etc...
2nds down/7ths up (I-vii, ii-I, iii-II, etc
3rds up/6ths down (I-iii, etc. if you dont get it by now you're probably in the wrong thread)

Not all of these are as common as others. In 4ths up/5ths down, for instance, V-I is much more common than vii-iii.

There are a few notable exceptions.
Because bouncing from the tonic to the (ii, IV or V) and back is common the ii-I, IV-I and I-V (reverse journeys) are common despite breaking the rule of thumb. So is the IV-I used as a Plagal Cadence, and the blues V7-IV7.

If you've followed so far you'll see that you can now make complex, functioning chord progressions just from knowing the rule of thumb...

2nds up/7ths down
3rds down/6ths up
4ths up/5ths down

...(and a couple of exceptions)
The best bit is that it's dead easy when you stop reading this shite and go and try it.

Theory at its most practical.

[Toxikator]

It isn't. Simple as that. You've just misunderstood.

Okay, well I'll take my sources, textbooks, teachers and peers over you.

I've never seen anyone notate the subtonic of C minor as bVII except you. everyone just writes VII (in fact, I googled "Roman Numeral Analysis" and didn't see a single instance of your analytical method)

Still, that bit about the 2nds up, 3rds down, 4ths up is very helpful! I knew about the circle (4ths) progressions, but never so much about ascending seconds and descending 3rds.

Appreciate it!

Between that and your discussion of 7ths in jazz I might hit a new level in my composition, so thanks for that.

Though you said "4ths up" in the less common section and I think you meant "4ths down"...

[nuffink]

Though you said "4ths up" in the less common section and I think you meant "4ths down"...

Thanks. Fixed it.

[Km7]

Both of you are right. These are two different systems for Roman numeral analysis.