How 'bout a "Miro support" web site (or page)?

[PaulG]

Oh and yeah btw I did do a lot of tips and tricks video clips for Philharmonik. More than anything else. It's in the download section on www.philharmonik.com

Squids,

I hope you get some personal kudos for this comment - your vids are what caused me to buy Miro in the first place! Don't think that for a second that this thread implies some kind of alck or deficiency exists in either presenting the features or how to work the plug - both you and Kim have done extremely well and even "above and beyond" in this respect.

This is one of those types of plugs, though, where it's not the plug itself, it's usage, etc, that is causing any sort of technical-related difficulty, but in how to use it for the greatest impact of musical expression in a reasonable amount of time and not have a year-long, head beating learning curve (kind of like learning to play guitar is for the first year - I don't know many people who actually make much music the first year of guitar and are confident and happy with themselves.)

I wanted to give the 100% impression right off the bat that nothing was wrong, no balls were dropped, and nobody is dissatisfied with anything but our own ability to DRIVE the thing to our own, or in some cases just a decent amount of, satisfactory output.

Heck, I know that the GPO & related stuff is Gary's full-time endeavour, and I don't at all expect or am even asking for a similar one from IK and it's co-patriots. I just wanted to gauge the interest of the helpfulness of even a smaller "diet, low-carb" version of some of what theyve got going on applied to Miro because for ANY orcehstral plug it would be well worth it.

And I shouldn't admit this, but after getting so frustrated with Miro I was going to license transfer, it ws only Kim's "tips and tricks" post that ended a whole lot of that creative musical frustation and caused me to give it a second glance, with GregJazz's mp3's and willingness to share how he does his workflow keeping me from doing that, I think, permanently.

I know that the reason that the GPO support is so essential is that basically buyers of these generally, I would guess, aren't first-time musicians or writers. I, myself, have been playing and writing for over 20 years, and even have a semester of college as a classical guitar major. To be totally up front, though, my writing has been mostly rock and new age stuff (like I mentioned) and not at all up to this point orchestral.

What, then, makes the GPO-realted community something to drool over is that I feel like, if I were, say, building a house, I've got the tools, I've got the "blueprint" (the music in my head), I've got the materials, but assembling them all is, as eloquently as I can put, a total bitch of a job that seems to be something beyond what I, personally can handle...YET...I KNOW that it's "doable" since others are obviously not having problems due to hearing some of the good demos with this.

Well, this is getting a little long - frankly I don't think that it's needed to go much further with the "interest only" topics as obvously we'be now established that quite a few people think it's quite a good idea.

Is it too early to start "putting our heads together" as to what would be valuabe as far as a Miro user community?

I'd vote for any sort of area where those that are willing would share their DAW project files along with the combi presets if so willing, too. I'd share whatever I, myself, do as well. And I have Cubase 4, Tracktion 2, and Sonar 5 so it might not be too much to port examples to these different hosts since it's just a matter of importing the MIDI file and setting up the instrument tracks.

And obvously a "user showcase" section for those who are more adept to get some much-deserved recognition.

Heck, we could pretty much take any of the areas or concepts that seem to be of help for the GPO community and apply that to Miro, too.

Just some more thoughts...

[Kim Lajoie]

Thanks Paul, it's not too early to start putting our heads together. In fact, it'd be good to start playing with ideas on this forum here, and then let it grow out when the official IK forums go online.

-Kim.

[woodie]

i agree with all the comments on Miro here. My innards are crying out to learn how to fully utilize it, but with absolutely no background in orchestration (don't even listen to classic music at all although I have a soft heart for big time hollywood orchestration), but the inspiration is just waning since I sit there and gaze into Miro oblivion on trying to figure out where I should start.

Also...I wish the screen was bigger since there's gobs and gobs of folders to go through and I quickly get lost, so I guess that's a Feature Request!

By the same token - I think the same could go for using the other tools, esp. T-Racks and Classik Reverb as both of those are "professional tools" and unless you have some serious background in music engineering....mastering and fine-tuning a reverb like that is "easier said than done", so some videos or tutorials on how to properly use it would be . Thank God for Presets, eh! But like what GaryG is doing for orchestration.....something the same for all the tools would be simply great for the company and also promote their tools ALOT better. I would also gamble that most customers are not "pro" either, so...

on the forum bit - if IK can't get off their butt and make the forum soon - I'd be willing to set a vBulletin board up that could go above and beyond KVR....more for education purposes as I agree with Squids, KVR is a great place for General stuff, but starts to get messy with specific areas of interest, like education of the various instruments/effects and such.

[harmony gardens]

I think Paul should get anything he wants,,, he's a good guy.

[Caleb]

I usually don't push these things too hard - mainly because my main contribution would be to act like a big sponge soaking up the efforts of others.

I like the idea of actual small tutorials with screenshots and maybe some small mp3s and presets to get the idea across. It's not that I have a problem with DAW project files per se, but I won't be able to load them up anywhere unless they're EnergyXT project files (which I doubt).

I like Paul's comments above by the way. The first-time guitar user analogy was pretty sound (for me anyway). I love the sounds this thing produces, but I really have difficult making it sing.

Even if we had a simple "Ask Kim" section or similar. People could post an mp3 of the kind of effect they're trying to get and maybe Kim (or whoever really - not trying to burden Kim) can reply back with some advice on how to do that specifically with Philharmonik.

If I actually felt like I could do any of this stuff well in Miro, I wouldn't mind writing up tutorials myself - but as I mentioned, I'm on the dumb end of the scale at the moment, which is kind of embarrassing considering I've owned the thing pretty much since it was released.

Regards
Caleb

[PaulG]

I just registered the domain name "friendsofmiro.org" and could pick up hosting by the morning if I knew what would be more applicable - Windows or Linux.

I am sorry, but I would not be able to do any of the design, programming, or administration as I have no extra time available for this right now.

If anyone would like to take this further, please let me know and I'll get you the FTP info as soon as the Domain DNS propogates. I used to work for a really large web hosting company so I know the back end pretty good. (No funny jokes on that last comment. )

Whomever would like to take this a little further would you please - so that I am comfortable - give me a little info about your background, knowledge, or experience with the technical or the design aspects? I've no doubt that the moderation (everything in moderation?) would be "top notch," but as far as installing the forum, etc, I have no capacity to do that right now, or even create any of the HTML, etc.

I hope this is useful - if not, no biggie, I don't have to do the hosting tommorow.

You could PM me or leave comments here, which would be preffered due to others knowing "who knows and does what" so to speak.

If this is all for naught, no big deal - we'll just let it die here.

Thanks to all who would take this further and those who would contribute!



Take care and have a good night,

- Paul

[Kim Lajoie]

Even if we had a simple "Ask Kim" section or similar. People could post an mp3 of the kind of effect they're trying to get and maybe Kim (or whoever really - not trying to burden Kim) can reply back with some advice on how to do that specifically with Philharmonik.

We can do this here and now. I'm here, you guys are all here. It's all in one place. I already have people contacting me by PM for advice (though it's better if it's on the forum so everyone can read it and benefit).

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure about setting up an unofficial forum for Philharmonik. Quite simply, the more forums I have to visit, the less time I can spend at each. We're kidding ourselves if we're just going to let "Friends of Miro" (or whatever it happens to be called) be suddenly switched off once the IK forums come online.

-Kim.

[Caleb]

Yeah - I'm happy to have an "Ask Kim" here as well, but I do think that the advice would benefit from being formalised in a more demonstrative way.

Anyway - I'm going to be writing a cello part soon for one of my songs and I think every time I stumble I'm going to post an "Ask Kim" here. Hopefully, by the end I'll have learned a thing or two about programming a cello.

So Kim - up for a challenge?

Regards
Caleb

[Kim Lajoie]

Aha! Cool.

You know, I'd really like to do some videos. There are a lot of techniques I use in Philharmonik (and other IK products too) that I do in seconds or minutes simply by listening and responding. These same techniques take me half an hour (or more!) to actually write up in such a way so that people can understand what I'm doing without being able to watch me do it and hear the effect.

One example that comes to mind is something I did on my recent work - improving string ensemble legato by adjusting the "velocity->sample start" macro. It only took a few minutes to adjust, but it'd take far longer to write it up (I think I've already written up a similar trick somewhere in the Philharmonik Tips And Tricks thread). Likewise, editing the CSR reverb is something I can do really quickly because I know the sound I'm going for, and I know how to tweak all the advanced parameters. However, it'd take me AGES to write it up, because I'd have to explain reverb theory, all the CSR parameters, plugin quirks, before I start veering off into mix theory, artistic use of depth and space, etc etc etc. It'd be so much faster if you all could just pack into my studio and watch over my shoulder.

The problem is, multimedia tutorials also take ages to make because there's a lot of planning involved. Also, I'm not equipped for video - although audio-only tutorials would be ok, especially if they could be high enough resolution. I'd still want to do text as well though, some things just need description.

Another thing I've been thinking of doing is documenting the full composition process, with downloadable mp3 clips for each day, showing the progress. I think that'd be really cool. I could use it as a basis for demonstrating some tricks I regularly use for SampleTank2, Amplitube2, CSR, Philharmonik, T-RackS, etc. You could hear how it works in a song. Do you know how cool it would be to spend a few days in the studio with someone like Trent Reznor? I'm not Trent Reznor, but it would be fun.

As you can probalby tell, I've got a vision for the kind of tutorials and resources I'd like to do, but the problem is time. When am I going to do all this?

-Kim.

[Mr. Tunes]

The problem is, multimedia tutorials also take ages to make because there's a lot of planning involved. Also, I'm not equipped for video - although audio-only tutorials would be ok, especially if they could be high enough resolution. I'd still want to do text as well though, some things just need description.

well you wouldnt need any cameras of any sort. you need screen-cap software. i've been hearing the name camtasia a lot but just checked and it's a $300 package! anyways i think it's used on a lot of pro tutorials out there.

[woodie]

you mean CamStudio....

http://www.camstudio.org
http://www.debugmode.com/wink/

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia ... Recording/

[Caleb]

I completely understand Kim. I'm the opposite - I wouldn't mind writing about it - but I'm a complete dumb arse with the device itself.

So I could write pages and pages about nothing!

All we need to do is work out how to get the good stuff out of you without asking too much of your time and then one of use can probably take it the rest of the way.

Take that legato strings you were just mentioning for instance. Would an fxp and midi file be a good start? I wouldn't mind taking a look at a working example and then maybe I can write something up with some screenshots etc.??? You can always correct any errors in assumptions I make (bound to be there I'm afraid) until we have a lovely working "How-To" on the subject.

Maybe if the final result is worthwhile, it could end up on the www.philharmonik.com site - if we don't end up putting together a "fan" site that is.

This can be a fun thing too - we can field questions in this forum on what the next topic should be and then we can go through the process again until we're all satisfied we have a good "How-To".

Of course, we should all take many breaks to bathe in the wonder of Squids' LA stories. This is a must!

Regards
Caleb

[Kim Lajoie]

Hmm. Camstudio looks pretty neat. I'd only need something basic.

I'll need a program of tutorials to do. What do you guys want to see?

-Kim.

[Caleb]

If you want something simple - have a look at Wink. It's free.

http://www.debugmode.com/wink/

Regards
Caleb

[woodie]

caleb - look at my post above wink is great....v2 is even better.

if i'm not mistaken, the problem with CamStudio is you'll need the special codec + the player. so that's probably not a viable solution. most folks probably don't even know what a codec is! but yeah...wink is always improving and a nice little piece of software.