Reacomp

[Frippertronix]

This whole thread has the sound of that song by Jackson Browne, was it? I think it's called "Engineers in Love".



Kingston is being intensely rude in this thread but I think we have to look at the hype factor of what Pipeline has claimed, which is high IMO. Analog gear, be it instruments or processors or recording media, sounds the way it does most likely for incredibly complex systems of reasons which are all interactive and often dynamic.

It just can't be as easy as pegging a short list of variables to "reproduce" the sound of a piece of analog gear in the digital realm, particularly a great and highly coveted piece like a classic compressor.

[Kingston]

Firstly, the compression amplifier in the mc77 comes before the attack/release setting, and they are not fed back, thus they have no bearing on the actual compression gradient/transfer function. That's a fixed value on a switched voltage divider of 4, 8, 16, etc. In a feed back amplifier this wouldn't be the case.

I didn't say it was. but should've been clear I was talking about his other attempts as well, some of which have rather elaborate program dependency topologies.

Lastly, filter "networks". Well this unit hasn't really got anything I'd refer to as a network

that's a concept I picked up when trying to understand how the env. shapes are done most of the time, and serial and parallel formations (ie. networks) are often combined to achieve desired effect.

the post you dissected was a general collection of areas of interest when trying to emulate compression characteristics (of compressors pipeline audio "emulated" earlier on this thread, some of them vari-mu), and not a description of how the 1176 works. I can't think of a single compressor that would exhibit all the characteristics listed there, but it's certainly a pointer on how futile it is to attempt such with the Reacomp in question here.

[Frippertronix]

i think i need stronger popcorn

And a bigger boat.

[Pipelineaudio]

It just can't be as easy as pegging a short list of variables to "reproduce" the sound of a piece of analog gear in the digital realm, particularly a great and highly coveted piece like a classic compressor.

Thats not the claim I made

[Pipelineaudio]

the post you dissected was a general collection of areas of interest when trying to emulate compression characteristics (of compressors pipeline audio "emulated" earlier on this thread, some of them vari-mu), and not a description of how the 1176 works. I can't think of a single compressor that would exhibit all the characteristics listed there, but it's certainly a pointer on how futile it is to attempt such with the Reacomp in question here.

Nor was it ever claimed to. I am speaking to end results here.

[Frippertronix]

It just can't be as easy as pegging a short list of variables to "reproduce" the sound of a piece of analog gear in the digital realm, particularly a great and highly coveted piece like a classic compressor.

Thats not the claim I made

Are you sure? Not making accusations but I recall a statement made by someone in your tutorial video that seemed to be along those lines. I'll have to go back and listen again. My apologies in advance if I'm blowing that out of proportion.

BTW, are you guys in Hawaii?

[jackson]

You say:

Why dont you tell me where I got it wrong smartass

walk the road of attack and release shapes (and their program dependency) and study the transfer curves in detail. Take in account a least two main forms of release program dependencies, and how that might affect peak and RMS ratios, which also happen to have a bearing on the transfer curves.

Then you will eventually run to the brick wall of very fast attack speed vs. distortion vs. rectification ripple in various forms of feedback topologies.

Let's not even get into the nearly uncharted territory of vari-mu digital emulations, which you so casually blanketed under "tube compression".

Then along comes capacitor/resistor networks in attack and release shaping with several standard forms of "auto" modes with serial or parallel topologies.

"fun"

understand any of the above concepts and the pretense of replicating much of it without actually programming your own plugin stops there and then.

couple of smatass dickheads that can do nothing but talk shit. Why dont you show me whats up

some of us smartass dickheads also have our feet pretty firmly on the ground.

Firstly, the compression amplifier in the mc77 comes before the attack/release setting, and they are not fed back, thus they have no bearing on the actual compression gradient/transfer function. That's a fixed value on a switched voltage divider of 4, 8, 16, etc. In a feed back amplifier this wouldn't be the case. So walk the road to your nearest library.

The brick wall we'll eventually run into with very fast speed (speed and audio frequencies gimme a break this ain't a microwave), and distortion are another matter in the actual attack/release controls, but mostly I'm really concerned with why you think ripple affects the detector. This is disconcerting, as firstly, the detector runs unity buffers between stages, and secondly the unit is very well regulated against AC ripple superimposed on the non-rectified DC portion of the power supply. Ripple can't be greater than 5mV in this guy. Plus it's only 30VDC.

So let's peel ourselves off the brick wall we've hit at 20hz - 20khz and walk down the road of vari-mu. This is not esoteric or black art engineering, it's a very simple and basic inverted twin to sharp cut off transfer functions. All vari-mu is is a nice, smooth gradient in the transfer function that doesn't hit maximum dissipation in 1VAV (ok 10VAC) of input, or external circuitry controlling said function. Not desirable everywhere, and really not a feature of the mv77. It is a feature of an LA2A, and the Manley Vari-Mu limiter, and a ton of others.

Lastly, filter "networks". Well this unit hasn't really got anything I'd refer to as a network, like a Pultec, but it has some basic 1/2piRC hpf/lpf filters. It's not an equalizer though it does feature a side chain input. And before you worry about ripple in RC filters, don't bother as they've got plenty of it and that's usually gone by the time it comes out the goesoutta of an active device, like a 2n5088 or a triode.

Rob

I say

potato

...

[Frippertronix]

Let's call the whole thread off.

[bduffy]

[Kingston]

[Pipelineaudio]

It just can't be as easy as pegging a short list of variables to "reproduce" the sound of a piece of analog gear in the digital realm, particularly a great and highly coveted piece like a classic compressor.

Thats not the claim I made

Are you sure? Not making accusations but I recall a statement made by someone in your tutorial video that seemed to be along those lines. I'll have to go back and listen again. My apologies in advance if I'm blowing that out of proportion.

BTW, are you guys in Hawaii?

I stated that I believe what many, especially those around here refer to as "character" could certainly be emulated, convincingly enough...CERTAINLY convincingly enough for an ABX test of most people concerned, by knowing how the detector in question worked, what sort of knee it had, and its parameter ranges.

To me, most of the "business end" of what a compressor does comes from how the compressor itself hears the signal. Of course different topologies are going to make different sounds, but now, in PC land, we have the ability for consistency, predictability and reliability, which again, to me, opens the door to thinking about things more the way they are on paper , ideally, and what happens when harsh reality sets in.

We're not in Hawai'i, but keep teetering on the edge of going back

[koolkeys]

DARNIT!!! I keep trying to get just a SIMPLE 303 sound of of ReaComp, and it won't do it!

Can anyone help me?!?!?!?!

[johnnypig]

Firstly, the compression amplifier in the mc77 comes before the attack/release setting, and they are not fed back, thus they have no bearing on the actual compression gradient/transfer function. That's a fixed value on a switched voltage divider of 4, 8, 16, etc. In a feed back amplifier this wouldn't be the case.

I didn't say it was. but should've been clear I was talking about his other attempts as well, some of which have rather elaborate program dependency topologies.

Lastly, filter "networks". Well this unit hasn't really got anything I'd refer to as a network

that's a concept I picked up when trying to understand how the env. shapes are done most of the time, and serial and parallel formations (ie. networks) are often combined to achieve desired effect.

the post you dissected was a general collection of areas of interest when trying to emulate compression characteristics (of compressors pipeline audio "emulated" earlier on this thread, some of them vari-mu), and not a description of how the 1176 works. I can't think of a single compressor that would exhibit all the characteristics listed there, but it's certainly a pointer on how futile it is to attempt such with the Reacomp in question here.

Reacomp DOES do all the things we're talking about. Fast attack/release, variable transfer function from sharp to smooth (knee), sidechain, auto-release, auto-makeup, hpf lpf, rms size, ratio from 1.0:1 to inf:1, preview filter... it's a digital compressor and it has enough strengths to emulate many types of compression.

It's a great tool for education purposes as well. For instance, http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/093/6/6SK7.pdf the datasheet for a GE 6SK7/12SK7 remote cut-off tube, scroll down to the average transfer charactoristics and calculate the db value of one of the curves. Then enter that into the knee area of reacomp.

Here's a great site full of transistor and tube engineering manuals and textbooks out of print: http://www.pmillett.com/technical_books_online.htm

Have fun!

Rob

[ouroboros]

DARNIT!!! I keep trying to get just a SIMPLE 303 sound of of ReaComp, and it won't do it!

Can anyone help me?!?!?!?!

1. turn down the suck.
2. turn up the awesome.

[koolkeys]

I never thought of that!!!