My samples are too short. What would a real pro do?

[rhythmsickness]

i tried some duplication, but it sounded all messed up. here's the sample i used if you wanna have a go at it if your method really works. but judging from the way the waves look (i.e. all random until it reaches the part where i duplicated where the repetition of a tiny wave sample forms a pattern).

isn't there some vst that let's me recreate sounds from a given sample or something like that?

looking at your sample


What I would do is find zero-crossing points in the selected area and duplicate that, as thats roughly the amount of space you want to fill up.
I'm not going to actually do it because 1) I'm not on my DAW and 2) its your work.
Again its not going to be perfect unless you spend loads of time on it

[ViktorW]

Hey Kyrre, that's a great song, the original i mean. What language is it? Do you know what the singer sings about? The song sounds like a creepy lullaby type, maybe some dark tale of a sailor or so. It's cool.

Vik

[Sascha Franck]

Would this be sufficient (I could hold it for hours)?
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/temp/sample.mp3

[Lagrange]

The problem with just looping the end is that you tend to get a daaaadadadadada sound instead of daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..

There is a buffer trick that sounds PERFECT. I can teach you it, it's kinda maticulous but is the best way.. Let me know if you want to know...

but 1st...

For time stretching this type of sample you need to do a gliding stretch (start is normal speed end is x speed).

I've been trying to see if I can get a VST plugin made but unfortunately no Dev here has shown interest..

Here is a dirty version that I used gliding stretch in Adobe Audition:

HERE..(Changed the drums just for example)..

EDIT: BTW you did not mention the host and or editor you use. I had to slice the sample at intersecting drum transients, exported each slice, then ran a batch script on each to give a gliding stretch (start = 100% end = 33%). I then appended each file into a new file with slice markers. I then dragged this into FL, put an inline recorder on master channel and then just manually played with the host tempo..

Please someone make a gliding stretch plugin..

L

[Lagrange]

Would this be sufficient (I could hold it for hours)?
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/temp/sample.mp3

Is that a forward backward loop? What did you use for this??

L

[Sascha Franck]

Is that a forward backward loop? What did you use for this??

Straight forward loop, a bit x-faded and then sent through WaveLabs "Wave Equalizer".
Did that with the crappy internet laptop speakers (didn't want to fire up all the DAW stuff), so there's some not so nice artefacts, would probably be a bit better if I had used headphones and tweaked the Wave Equalizer at least a bit.
But then, the source sample was *very* short. Not much of a chance to get any proper looppoints. That's why I used the Wave Equalizer (which can do miracles on some stuff). From what I seem to remember, it's sort of granularizing the file and then adding similar material inbetween, following whatever technical blurbs. Or so. Lost the printed manual (I'm still using version 3) almost ages ago.

In addition, if I was seriously attempting this, I would indeed probably load it into Kontakt first and try with forward/backwards loops. WL doesn't allow for that.

Still, not all that shabby for 1-2 minutes of fiddling , I think.

[Lagrange]

hmm Waves Equalizer?? You mean Renaissance Equalizer?? LET ME KNOW PLZ

L

[Sascha Franck]

hmm Waves Equalizer?? You mean Renaissance Equalizer?? LET ME KNOW PLZ

No, it's a special function inside WaveLab, called "Wave Equalizer". I think it was made with just those "un-loopable" samples in mind.
I wouldn't happen to know about anything else doing this sort of job - one of the reasons I love WaveLab so much. Probably the granular approach in Kontakt could get somewhat close, but so far I seriously doubt it.
Actually, the word "Equalizer" is quite misleading. Ok, it does make the sound "equal" indeed, so there...

[Lagrange]

So it's in Wavelab 3?

L

[Sascha Franck]

So it's in Wavelab 3?

Sure. And I doubt they've taken it away in 4, 5 and 6.

[Kingston]

Time Stretch...carefully.

I use Sound Forge 7.
But too much stretch will ruin the sound.

But I'd rather keep the sound as it is and work on its end part.

I take it even if I stretch it just a little bit, the sound will sound all chopped up

Again, I think the original clip sounds just perfect the way it is. The chop effect works really well and supports the groove you've got going.

If you absolutely must make the sample longer, make a forward-reverse loop of it, with additional crossfade if you need to hide glitches on loop turnaround. Basically take a snippet from the end of the sample, copy that to the end, reverse it, copy the original non reversed bit to the end, and rinse and repeat as long as you need.

Also remember, traditional non forward-reversed loop might work even better, when the repeater effect makes a groove of it's own. I would advice you didn't try to hide the looper effects when it comes to artistic decisions. It's been proven to work with the music you do. And don't do random loop lenghts, but make them correspond with the tempo of the song. maybe quarter notes, make dotted eight notes. You decide.

[kyrre]

Would this be sufficient (I could hold it for hours)?
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/temp/sample.mp3

Hail yeah! Oh oh oh aaaabsolutely man, I believe that'll do I dazzled, beyond words, it's like you took a dollar and turned it into a thousand! I doubt I can achieve the same thing. But I'll give this whole forward/backward loop thing a go.

Any ways to further smooth the thing by the way? Maybe now a phaser with a slight delay and reverb would make it sound awesome, or something else perhaps?

Again, I think the original clip sounds just perfect the way it is. The chop effect works really well and supports the groove you've got going.

If you absolutely must make the sample longer, make a forward-reverse loop of it, with additional crossfade if you need to hide glitches on loop turnaround. Basically take a snippet from the end of the sample, copy that to the end, reverse it, copy the original non reversed bit to the end, and rinse and repeat as long as you need.

Also remember, traditional non forward-reversed loop might work even better, when the repeater effect makes a groove of it's own. I would advice you didn't try to hide the looper effects when it comes to artistic decisions. It's been proven to work with the music you do. And don't do random loop lenghts, but make them correspond with the tempo of the song. maybe quarter notes, make dotted eight notes. You decide.

Thanks a lot man, your advice is very much appreciated!

Yep it may hold a bit of potential, but that's only because of this old magnificent sample. Now if I could just overcome this slight glitch in the flow by getting rid of the whitespace in between the samples, I should be at peace with myself, at least enough to continue the development of this beat.

[Sascha Franck]

I doubt I can achieve the same thing. But I'll give this whole forward/backward loop thing a go.

As said, this was *not* done using forward/backward looping. I set a loop, but only roughly, the rest of the magic was done using WaveLabs "Wave Equalizer" which is actually adding material on its own, based on whatever analysis methods.

Any ways to further smooth the thing by the way? Maybe now a phaser with a slight delay and reverb would make it sound awesome, or something else perhaps?

I think for that rather oldfashioned sound you could as well experiment with some tape saturators or so. Even a mellow overdrive would do.

[Dayl]

Time Stretch...carefully.

I use Sound Forge 7.
But too much stretch will ruin the sound.

But I'd rather keep the sound as it is and work on its end part.

I take it even if I stretch it just a little bit, the sound will sound all chopped up

No way mate,

Its only when you try to pull approx 30seconds out of 10.

But the other info on getting the cut right will do a good job also. I'm just lazy, it would have be a standout part of the track or a long sample before I bothered.

I didnt listen to the sample as my browser is being a lil cry baby.

[kyrre]

As said, this was *not* done using forward/backward looping. I set a loop, but only roughly, the rest of the magic was done using WaveLabs "Wave Equalizer" which is actually adding material on its own, based on whatever analysis methods.

Unfortunately though I do not use WaveLab.

Would you happen to know if Sound Forge has a similar alternative?

I think for that rather oldfashioned sound you could as well experiment with some tape saturators or so. Even a mellow overdrive would do.

Indeed. Rune L-H's otiumFX Sonitex has some of that

Kyrre