KVR Audio

pwedza · Post by **pwedza** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:46 am

336 pages WTF!??!?

pwedza · Post by **pwedza** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:49 am

sorry 337

VaiHalen · Post by **VaiHalen** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:24 am

I think the shameless utilization of the Jimi Hendrix name and image is something we could name as pornomarketing. Would Hendrix, Hendrix not his family, agreed with the use of him to sell this? There is a huge poster of the man in the videos like if Hendrix itself is endorsing IK Multimedia. What a refined deceit! This guys are going too far.

And btw in the videos I wached there is no Hendrix tone; maybe the sound quality is not the best, but at the moment I cant hear any authentic Hendrix tone.

electro · Post by **electro** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:02 am

VaiHalen wrote: And btw in the videos I wached there is no Hendrix tone; maybe the sound quality is not the best, but at the moment I cant hear any authentic Hendrix tone.

What do you think about IK Amp emulations in general?

VaiHalen · Post by **VaiHalen** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:42 am

Well with AT2 I only get good sounds with not much gain: hard rock, vintage rock, blues and such. Dont like the interface, no midi, not much features. I dont like it very much.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:32 pm

A3ntar wrote: In my case what I am after is to get a tone similar to his

May I ask why?
I mean, can't you just find your "own" tone using whatever stuff is up to your budget?
Seriously, if I *only* had a PC and the SimulAnalog stuff and a few other things for the rest of my life, I could be perfectly happy. Yes, I do have the resources to get me some other stuff as well, but I couldn't even remotely say I'd "need" it.

Not every one could afford to purchase a 1,200$ pedal and the software has a bunch of them, to re-create Hendrix tone and to create your own tones using a decent collection of vintage gear.

I can't do that either. But then, I don't see a single reason why I should even sound remotely close to Hendrix (and btw, sounding "remotely" close is possible easily these days) - unless I needed to play in a Hendrix cover band.

I would as well assume that the guys at Musikmesse would be trying really hard to showcase the software as it's best. I am a bit dissapointed to hear that you tought that it wasn't "all that".

Well, of course I couldn't do a 1:1 comparison, but when it comes to things such as "playing feel", how would one even expect a software running through whatever fullrange setup to sound close to a Marshall full stack? That's physically impossible.
Maybe in a recording situation it wouldn't matter, but in a live situation it does.

A3ntar wrote: I am so broke, I am still saving for that 99$ StealthPlug.

I would seriously think about that one as well. I heard really bad things about the latency. If you're not using a laptop, better get yourself some PCI solution.

beergeek wrote: Sascha, who's to say that you couldn't use all this stuff to create your own sound? I mean, it's really tweakable.

Sure, it's tweakable. But almost any chain of compression, EQ, overdrive, ampsim, compression and EQ (skip whatever you may not need) is highly tweakable as well. Then get Energy XT and save it as a single preset (and yes, that chain is meant for real, it's one possible key for maximum flexibility).

I'm sure the demonstrator was indeed trying to "sound like Jimi" but there's the fault. He ain't Jimi and Jimi wouldn't be trying to sound like that today.

So, why would anybody else need to sound like Hendrix, unless he/she is playing in a cover band?

BTW, what do you think ABBA would be doing today? Yes, that's a really smartass comment but I think it's valid. Aren't you doing an ABBA clone?

Yes, I'm playing in an ABBA cover show band (currently in Tokio, btw). So what? It's a money job. Nothing else. I couldn't give less of a damn about what they'd do today. And I also don't give a damn about the equipment their guitar players used. For the current production I'm playing a Vox Valvetronix amp, and the sounds I'm using most are coming from some "UK modern" amp model - not authentic at all, yet nobody has ever complained about it for a second. The Vox is just fine. And it'd suck big time for anything I'd ever like to do on my own. So there. I just don't give a damn as long as I have more or less decent clean, crunchy and overdriven sounds.

So what is the difference?

See above. The difference is that I could do the job with a Twin and a stombox. Or with a Rectifier. Or with a POD. Or even with my rusty Boss GT-5. Or with a shitty VAmp. Or with Amplitude. Or with ReValver (which, btw, is my software weapon of choice anyways, it just sounds and reacts WAY, WAY, WAY better than ANY of the competitors). As far as such jobs go, nobody would ever complain. It's all in your hands, nothing else. And yes, I'm dead serious, I'm doing jobs like that (and some musical stuff) for a living since quite some time.

Ok, what if it comes to "my" tone? f**k it, really - I don't need any authentic JH tone or whatsoever. I'm struggling hard to get the authentic "Sascha Franck tone" since ages. And that's got almost nothing to do with the amps I'm using (as long as the amp sound is more or less decent). It's got all to do with timing, rhythm, phrasing, proper note choice, general enjoyment of music, good general music skills and whatever (I'm not saying I'm there yet at all, but these are the ingredients being important). Where's any amp or software simulation in that kinda picture? Right: Nowhere. Really, nowhere! As said before, I could do with some freeware for the rest of my life (I fortunately don't have to, but that's already way beyond the point).

Having said that: No pun intended (well, probably there is some pun intended...), I have heard countless examples of people posting their "great guitar tones", using whatever hard- or software. A lot of them simply would've made me laugh if it wasn't that sad. Oh yeah, what a perfect tone - just that the playing sucked as much as possible. And who would give a damn about any tone if the playing sucks?

beergeek · Post by **beergeek** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:04 pm

I hope you didn't think I was dissing you or the the ABBA gig. If I could get a gig like that I would but I'm not that good.

It just struck me funny that you of all people would come down hard on them. They make their money on Jimi and you make your money on ABBA.

How should they market it? "This won't make you sound like Jimi at all but who gives a f**k, buy it anyway."

Your tour promoters aren't going to say "Hey, we don't sound like ABBA at all but who gives a f**k, buy a ticket anyway."

That's what I meant by we all gotta eat.

I'm in total agreement with you though about the gear...the gear doesn't make the sound, you do. Good players with decent gear sound way better then bad players with top of the line.

Bottom line, this is just an expansion pack with some extra models in it. Just another tool among the many things out there. I'd love to try ReValver but I'm on a mac and the mac version isn't out yet.

Frantiac · Post by **Frantiac** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:39 pm

I'd love to try ReValver but I'm on a mac and the mac version isn't out yet.

Revalver MkII 07.04.11 beta for Mac + Windows:

http://www.alienconnections.com/phpbb/v ... 99c4e82001

beergeek · Post by **beergeek** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:47 am

Awesome! Thanks Frantiac!

A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:10 am

beergeek wrote:Awesome! Thanks Frantiac!

Post your impressions on Revalver beergeek. I found it to beat Amplitube on high gain sounds, although for cleans nothing IMHO can touch AT2.

Sascha, I agree with everything you say...I feel like I am agreeing with Dr. Phil. here...

"I am doing coke Dr.....Help me!!" ... "You're sniffing coke! well stop doing thaaaat"

I mean of course it all makes sens what your saying. As I said before, there is no wrong in trying to nail a Jimi Hendrix tone...maybe you can find your "tone" by trying to emulate his or maybe you will never find it, even if you have all the hardware/software in the world. Who knows.

But it cannot do you any harm to have the extra emulation on your arsenal because if it doesn't make you a Jimi Henrix (and it wont), it will at least help widen your tone possibilities.

_patch · Post by **_patch** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:26 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:Really, absolutely ridiculous marketing bullshit, nothing else.

some true words.

Mokafix · Post by **Mokafix** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:16 pm

Ok, I'm in.
The longest thread ever...
Almost a community on its own

I also think it looks a bit silly at first to make a plugin from someone's name, but then, you can see it like this:
There's a lot of gear waiting to be emulated, and especially in the guitar world. So they have to make choices. To do so, chosing a thematic can be a good way to start. They choosed to make their choices around Jimi Hendrix, which is a choice among others.
The result is a bunch of effects and amps that used to be in Jimi Hendrix's arsenal, but they are just more stomps and amps for the demanding guitar player.
They advertise on the guy's name, which is fair to a certain extent, but it doesn't mean the purpose of the product - if any - is to emulate Jimi Hendrix, or that it is the only thing you can do with it, like "if you don't want to be Jimi Hendrix, don't buy it"...

I think the sillyness comes when you think "Ok, I'm not really appealed by this advertising. Who would be?" and then you got a picture of the kind of people who would be drooling and ready to spend cash: the guy next door who has no creativity and always want to buy the same gear you got, because he thinks your tone - which he loves - comes from your gear, and doesn't realize there's something else. He collects stuff, and then can show off to his friends when they come home. And this guy is so pathetic that you really can't imagine buying this plugin.

It seems IK is targeting those guys, probably cause they are a lot, they love gear (for freudian reasons), they got money to spend...

But it doesn't mean the product isn't worthy. It can still be used to actually play music I guess.

Let's say IK has a wonderful dev team, and a not so wonderful marketing one.
But don't let that maketing team hide the devs work.

I can't believe I just wrote in this thread... It will be blinking in my "your psts" list for the rest of my life...

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:24 am

I think the marketing team is "wonderful," too, purely objectively speaking. They've had good promotions and visible ads, and have generated a lot of revenue for IKMM. Most companies are glad to have marketing departments that come up with new ways to make them money.

That doesn't invalidate any points like Sascha's... I fully agree that it's nothing but ridiculous marketing bullshit. But, speaking purely in terms of business, that's the name of the game. Making some luchre. I suspect the Jimi Hendrix edition of AT2 will get them some money.

Mokafix · Post by **Mokafix** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:21 am

Yes, of course it's efficient marketing, i just said "not so wonderful", as most people here feel it is a bit displaced and make them feel like the product isn't targeted at serious musicians.

But Fender does signature guitars and we still buy them, so no prob, I guess.
The thing is real musicians and artist have an ego and don't really like to feel like a marketing targets.
Maybe the IK advertising is a bit too obvious and not too subtile.

Maybe it reveals an inconvenient truth:

making music isn't anymore a job, but also a product by itself!
I mean that now, making music is a leasure and can really be targeted as a new consumption area.
Before, you needed at least to learn an instrument to play music, so it was an elite leasure, or at least not the average-lazy-joe's.
But now, you can make music sitting in front of your computer, with a few mouse clicks.
So it is a leasure like video games or TV or whatever. You can tell that at least it makes you create something, which is true and positive, but it still is a consumption leasure, and almost anyone can access it. (of course it's a bit of an expensive leasure...)

I think AT2 JH marketing is focusing on that aspect.

The danger is that real musicians can get pissed off and find something else more underground and more rewarding for their ego.
But from IK's point of view, I guess it's not much of a problem, as real musicians are less numerous - and poorer - than rich kids.

A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:23 am

The way I see it it is no better then musicians buying guitars for the trip of collecting guitars or getting that elusive guitar tone.

I mean, even though most will not admit openly, the main reason why most of us, at one moment or another in the musician path, buy a stratocaster a tele or a Les Paul is to sound like your idols...I don't care how talented or how brilliant that person is. Most of us try first to imitate, and then to innovate.

So what is wrong in buying emulation of pieces of gear that the man himself once used to create his tone?

Now as far as the marketing goes, I agree. I hate to see the Jimi hendrix name plastered everywhere, heck, they even sold his name for freaking underwear!!! http://www.oldglory.com/lp/detailImage? ... hNVWQuanBn

But for me it is a consolation rather than a dissapointment that if the Hendrix names has yet to be sold again for the thousands time to another product, well, at least this time it is being sold for a god damn Guitar related one!!

Amplitube 2 Jimi Hendrix RELEASED this month!!!