KVR Audio

Lagrange · Post by **Lagrange** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:55 pm

Which answers why there will NEVER be a Recycle or DR Rex VST.. This leave my mouth dry..

loachm · Post by **loachm** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:18 pm

jeffb01 wrote:You can't export a rex2 file (rex 1 are mono) because rex2 is a proprietary format owned by propellerhead. They opened it for anyone to be able to import rex2 files but not export. That's how they get away with charging $200 for recycle which seems overpriced for a bare-bones slicer that hasn't had an upday in who-knows. That's the only way to export a rex2 file.

Lagrange wrote:Which answers why there will NEVER be a Recycle or DR Rex VST.. This leave my mouth dry..

...that's why I'm so happy I got my copy of Recycle for 100 bucks...

...but I also would have paid the retail price - it's one of my most used tools and still superior to other formats. However, I would like to see an update for Recycle - I already wrote some suggestions to the Props and I'm sure others did, too...

Lagrange · Post by **Lagrange** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:47 pm

BTW if you havent purchased ReCycle yet you should know that 2 and 2.1 do not export RCY and REX it only exports RX2 which supremely sucks if you need the older formats! ReCycle 1.7 was the last version that did RCY's.. I'm not too sure of the difference between 1.x and 2.x (some please let me know)
So for example if your sampler opens RCYs only your SOL..

L

dreaddd · Post by **dreaddd** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:19 pm

BTW if you havent purchased ReCycle yet you should know that 2 and 2.1 do not export RCY and REX it only exports RX2 which supremely sucks if you need the older formats!

and thats extremely pissing off a paying customer . ... i mean WHAT THE f**k IS THE POINT of not allowing that?
its simply unbelievable they thought about preventing the main app THEY sell from dealing with the format THEY created not being able to use the previous format THEY created..
whos their marketing guru? De Sade?
Peace

loachm · Post by **loachm** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:10 am

...given that even v.2.1 is rather old I don't think that this is a huge problem. Come on, every program is evolving. I mean, almost all programs don't save their files in the format of a previous version. Do I want to save my projects in a Kontakt 1.2 version, Live 3.0, Cubase VST 5? Cubase 4 doesn't even OPEN pre-SX projects anymore - that's what I would call annoying...

(I have to pay attention to not to become the Props' attorney here

)

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:17 am

they need to turn recycle into a damn vst that syncs to host and then it'd be worth it.

AMGs One looks killer for rexfiles
Guru is another for Rex
her's hoping that beat inc is so good that it doesn't even need rex compatibility.

Ubiety · Post by **Ubiety** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:42 pm

At least on Mac OS X there is an alternative to the RCY/REX/RX2 format. There is Apple Loops. The alternative to ReCycle is Apple Loops utility. Those who use GarageBand, Logic, and DP know of the pleasure of working with Apple Loops. In one way that Apple Loops Utility (ALU) is better than ReCycle (ReC) is that ALU can save files to the standard AIFF format complete with marker information for transients so that one is not restricted in the use of their audio files. Meta tags that contain MIDI, time signature. and other types of data can be stored in a file created by ALU. Of course to use all of the features available with Apple Loops, and the list is extensive, one has to use Apple products, GarageBand, Logic, Final Cut Pro, Soundtrack, etc. Still, though, some host applications do read basic transient marker information (no difference than Propellerheads' formats here) contained in Apple Loops; Digital Performer versions 4.5-5 and Ableton Live both do, so that tempo matching and timestretching is as easy as drag and drop.

My two cents on the whole slicer issue is that if one has Battery 3, a host that reads RCY/REX/RX2 or Apple Loops files, and either ReCycle or Apple Loops Utility, then there is nothing else that one needs to work with sliced audio. At most only three tools are needed. If you happen to use GarageBand or Logic or Reason the list of tools needed is even smaller. (I could have mentioned Kontakt, but Battery 3 is like a sailboat whereas Kontakt is like the Titanic--or is that Titanik.)

I understand the attraction to a Dr. REX-like VST, but just as much work is required to use it as one would use Battery 3 and REX or AL files. Dr. REX is cute and cuddly, but one definitely is not stranded without it.

dreaddd · Post by **dreaddd** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:13 pm

given that even v.2.1 is rather old I don't think that this is a huge problem. Come on, every program is evolving. I mean, almost all programs don't save their files in the format of a previous version.

no, sorry i disagree...we re not talking about a vsti that changed format after a while..were talking about an app whose format was used by several vsti and app from several brands..
and they REALLY changed from day to night the format that till 2 days before everyone was DUE to use for dealing with recycled files...
if, say, arturia changed their own format its up to them and their users only, changing the recycle format and not letting people with other app use the old format is just plain marketing with the other brands for having rx2 implemented AND GET PAID by them..
just read what bitshift audio had to deal with before izotope buying phatmatik...(and puling out the budget for the rx2 license)

Peace

tech44 · Post by **tech44** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:44 pm

stale bread wrote:they need to turn recycle into a damn vst that syncs to host and then it'd be worth it.

AMGs One looks killer for rexfiles
Guru is another for Rex
her's hoping that beat inc is so good that it doesn't even need rex compatibility.

I downloaded the demo for Reflex, MicroDicer, and AMG One. I have to agree with others here that they are all not quite there. AMG One seems unprofessional with the ancient installer and the 87 files that installed all over the place....not to mention I had to fill out a full bio to register just to get the demo. Then I couldn't find a way to filter each sample individually (did I miss it?).

tee boy · Post by **tee boy** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:55 pm

bduffy wrote:
Lagrange wrote:One other MAJOR problem with some of these rex players is they don't do mirror stretching. Which means your gonna get some nasty envelope cutoffs (clicks) if you slow down the tempo in the host! AFAIK Recycle, DR Rex and FL's slicer are the only ones that do this. I use vsampler (which also loads REX files and Exports a MIDI file) but have to make sure I get the length setup properly 1st or it's click hell for the loop.
"Mirror" stretching? You mean the stretching in ReCycle? Yeah, it's a very cool feature that everybody inexplicably forgets about.

I use that all the time, as a creative effect. Is so useful!

Recycle and Dr Rex are amazing programs. I have them both, and use them extensively. I just hate Rewire! Seems to bugger my computer up for some reason. If I could take Dr Rex out of Reason and intop Cubase (which is NEVER going to happen) then Id be a happy man.

Think I shall give Phatmatik a try. I heard about this one a while back but never tried it out. Sounds cool.

Thanks all the for the suggestions!

TB

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:57 pm

Good luck with Phatmatik. I found it suffers from all the shortcomings of its competitors.

dreaddd · Post by **dreaddd** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:17 pm

I just hate Rewire! Seems to bugger my computer up for some reason

teeboy if you didnt already , check if you have the latest rewire dlls installed..old rewire version can cause problems on latest app versions and viceversa..

I d like to be able to detach dr rex myself and stick it on cubase tho!

bduffy: what exactly you feel lacking on Phatmatik?

loachm · Post by **loachm** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:24 pm

dreaddd wrote:
given that even v.2.1 is rather old I don't think that this is a huge problem. Come on, every program is evolving. I mean, almost all programs don't save their files in the format of a previous version.
no, sorry i disagree...we re not talking about a vsti that changed format after a while..were talking about an app whose format was used by several vsti and app from several brands..
and they REALLY changed from day to night the format that till 2 days before everyone was DUE to use for dealing with recycled files...
if, say, arturia changed their own format its up to them and their users only, changing the recycle format and not letting people with other app use the old format is just plain marketing with the other brands for having rx2 implemented AND GET PAID by them..
just read what bitshift audio had to deal with before izotope buying phatmatik...(and puling out the budget for the rx2 license)

Peace

...I admit, I don't know what was going on in particular with the turn from Recycle 1 to v2, but generally constant change is a regular phenomenon in the software business. It's like when a software is not supporting your OS any longer and you have to decide whether to stay where you are or to update your software and your OS. Personally, I'm very happy about the Rex2-format for it offers various improvements to the original RCY-format. Most samplers and sequencers I know support it in the meantime, so I can't see a big problem there. But it is sad that some other programs still seem to have a problem with the REX2-format, as it is (I mentioned it earlier) available for a long time...

(...now I am really playing Props advocate here

...)

...regarding the Apple loops format - as far as I know it is very similar to the Acidiced Wave-format, which is also available on PC. I THINK (!, don't fry me here), the REX2-format offers some advantages over these formats - 1. lossless compression, 2. better sound quality due to the unique stretching algorithm of Recycle 2...

jeffb01 · Post by **jeffb01** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:57 pm

loachm wrote:
(...now I am really playing Props advocate here ...)

...regarding the Apple loops format - as far as I know it is very similar to the Acidiced Wave-format, which is also available on PC. I THINK (!, don't fry me here), the REX2-format offers some advantages over these formats - 1. lossless compression, 2. better sound quality due to the unique stretching algorithm of Recycle 2...

yeah, what loachm said. Rex has many advantages over apple loops or acid files. apple or acid loops stretch out the file with a good stretching algorithm. These sound pretty good (better when sped up than slowed down) but will have some artifacts (unwanted noise). Rex2 files are merely chopped up (and given a designated tail so that if the loop is played slower there won't be silence between samples). The samples themselves are not sped up or slowed down.

Rex2 files offer great flexibility, such as modifiying each slice seperately (raising the volume of the kick within the loop, adding effects to the snare within the loop, etc.). Not as easy with apple loops.

Honestly, since there is no time-stretching, I believe Rex2 are vastly supperior to apple loops and acid in sound quality and potential. That being said, apple loops sound pretty good if you are fairly close in bpm to the original loop. Apple loops and acid files are actually much better than rex2 for non-rhytmatic files (that can't easily be chopped up) such as a drone or a complex piano performance.

telephone · Post by **telephone** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:11 pm

bduffy wrote:Good luck with Phatmatik. I found it suffers from all the shortcomings of its competitors.

No problems here for pHatmatik. Also curious what problems you have? The only thing which lacks is tempo sync auditioning of rex2 loops.

Dr Rex, VST?