Amplitube 2 Jimi Hendrix RELEASED this month!!!

[redshift factor]

I think the software does overcome the limitations of hardware. It is patently obvious that it does, simply in the fact that you CAN switch out your entire rig even in the middle of a song. But it still is going to at least take a nominal amount of effort of the part of the user. You can't expect it to come preconfigured with the exact sound you want. If you want "your" sound, then you're going to have to make your own presets, and its a good idea to do that prior to taking stage. The reason I suggested turning down the audio device output volume is because the "volume" knob in AmpliTube 2 affects dynamic saturation response far more than it affects actual volume, and each amp model has its own unique response curve. The volume knob is fundamental to the amp's tone. I don't see why anyone would want to mess with that, unless they never took the time to create the tone they wanted in the first place. Changing the volume knob changes the amount of distortion saturation, not so much the actual output volume. If its a venue specific issue that you're suddenly confronted with that is going to require a change in volume, then it would be output volume, not changing the amount of saturation in your clean tones across the board. But if its not a venue specific issue, then there's no reason you shouldn't have come prepared with the amp tones you wanted. If that's the case and its instead the dynamic saturation you want to turn down because you never bothered to create the tone you wanted in the first place, then turning down the guitar's volume would have almost the exact same effect because of the DSM technology. Sascha's complaints don't really make sense in real world application, and seem more like something not too well thought out to complain about, just for the sake of complaining. Some people are just like that.

[AndrewSimon]

Not complaining but somehow I don't feel the "I must get this" like I felt with AT2.
I logged into esounds and my price is higher then the upgrade price I paid for AT2
On top of that (dare I say) I never liked Jimi Hendrix.
Hmm... hopefully there will be a demo (right Squids?) and it will hit me into submission.

[Squids]

Not complaining but somehow I don't feel the "I must get this" like I felt with AT2.
I logged into esounds and my price is higher then the upgrade price I paid for AT2
On top of that (dare I say) I never liked Jimi Hendrix.
Hmm... hopefully there will be a demo (right Squids?) and it will hit me into submission.

Woah. We have a new web guy and it is Friday. He's made his first mistake which is the price. Not sure how but... anyway, it's been fixed. No wonder!!!! I was reading your post and scratching my head. Have a look at the price now http://www.esoundz.com/details.php?ProductID=1646

I am sure it is cheaper than your upgrade to AT2 was. Whew. Good thing I caught that before the weekend.

Anyway, yes there will be a demo to play soon. (real soon)

Here's what I'd say generally speaking. IF you're not a Hendrix fan but are curious about the "gear inside" then I strongly recommend trying out the demo version first. It's a good idea anyway whenever possible. If anyone IS a Hendrix fan though I think you can safely just pick it up and trust that it is going to be worth the money (especially if you qualify for the crossgrade) because... I'd find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be. However, by all means, each person has to do what they're comfortable with. If you are thinking about getting it on esoundz though you should try to get in on the deal that's happening for the pre-order and orders before May 15th. By the way, we'll be shipping by May 15th or sooner just to have an idea.

[Sascha Franck]

I really don't understand what you're complaining about. It seems to be like you're complaining for the sake of complaining.

You really can't read properly, can you?
What in the world is so tough to understand in "I don't want to reprogram all my clean patches should I notice the clean sounds are all too low in volume!"? What is it that you don't understand? Are there any words I could help you along with? You probably don't know what "clean" means? Am I talking chinese or something?

You want it both ways, and you apparently don't want to even bother with creating your own patches while you're at it.

PARDON? Where do you get THAT from? I am exclusively using patches programmed from the ground. By myself. Moi. Mr. Sascha Franck. Again, what is it that you are interpreting wrong? Where did I say I wouldn't program my patches?

My suggesting would normally be for you to just create some presets with the amp volume set to your liking in advance. But that's apparently too difficult for you.

And this is EXACTLY what I have been doing whenever I've been using programmable equipment. It DOESN'T WORK PROPERLY THAT WAY!
Apparently you don't play live much. Or you're just doing one sort of a gig. I am playing live for a living. I'm doing between 80 and 150 gigs a year since over 10 years. Quite different gigs under quite different conditions. I need to be able to modify my used sounds quickly. Usually you don't have more than 5 minutes at best on soundchecks. And I don't want to save an extra bank for "Project X playing in venue A", just to save the same bank as "Project X playing in venue B" or even as "Project Y playing in venue C" over and over again.
All I want is to globally turn of the goddamn speaker sim should I use a guitar amp as a monitor.
Or turn down the reverb should it be a big hall.
Or have (all!) my clean patches a bit louder, for whatever reasons.

I can tell you, back when I've been using the GT5, I have been using the very mentioned utility features on EACH AND EVERY gig - why would it be too much to ask for such a thing in a software amp sim? Just because some Mr. Joe Clever is telling me I'm too dumb to program my patches? Thank you, Sir!

If you were using a real amp, then you'd only have two channels which you'd have to set individually, and switch between them. You'd have a set number of pedals, chained the same way for the duration of your show. You would turn them on and off with your foot. Creating that exact setup is exceedingly easy to do with AmpliTube 2 and Stomp I/O, and would operate in the exact same way.

Again, you have no idea about what I was talking about.
And you have no idea about my setup either.

My main setup through a lot of years has been a Mesa Boogie Mark IV, a Soldano SP-77 preamp, a Boss GEQ7 rack mounted floor pedal as a lead booster (for whatever reason, I always found this one to work pretty well) and a Rocktron noise gate.
This is as far as my preamp stuff goes.
All of them were sitting in some looper. Loop 1 = EQ, Loop 2 = Mark IV preamp section, Loop 3 = Soldano, Loop 4 = noise gate.
The looper is MIDI controlled. So, I can switch from the Mesa clean channel to the Soldanos overdrive channel with a bit of addtional boost and the noise gate turned on with a single foot switching action.
Show me how to do that with Amplitube. Yes, I can of course program appropriate patches.
But what if I wanted all of my clean sounds to be louder? With my rack setup, I'd just turn the volume knob on the Mark IVs clean channel up. Done. What was your alternative when using Amplitube again? Reprogramming all clean patches? Yeah, sure - how convenient!

Oh and btw, with said rack setup, I ended up using around 8 preamp sounds (there's more possible, just the 5 preamp channels with the GEQ make up for 10, plus, the Boogie master EQ is switcheable as well).

Then, let's just take things a bit further. I used to have some FX units in that rack as well. They varied a lot over the years, but the ones I've been using most have been A DD5 floor pedal delay (again rackmounted), an SE-50 for the rare occasions I needed a modulated sound and an Alesis Quadraverb for the reverb (quite good enough for live purposes). They were all fed and returned by a rack/line mixer, so the signal didn't have to pass through them entirely.
Now whenever I felt I needed less overall reverb, I would just turn down the reverb return. Same for modulation and delays.

Now, what was your way of dealing with the issue and Amplitube again? Resave all the patches again and again, right?

I am absolutely sure you will still continue telling me how Amplitube is able to do the job in exactly the same fashion. Just that you don't even try to understand what I'm complaining about. Either because you're too ignorant, too dumb or too much of a fanboy.
I'm really sorry for these harsh words, but given how much I explained my problems in detail, given that by now almost everybody else seems to understand the problem, I fail to see any other reasons why you would still be trying to tell me it was all good and fine, whereas it clearly isn't.

[Sascha Franck]

Sascha's complaints don't really make sense in real world application, and seem more like something not too well thought out to complain about, just for the sake of complaining. Some people are just like that.

Read my last post and then say that again.
Very sorry, I rarely ever do that, but:


My complaints ONLY make sense in a real world application and MANY people I met over the years are in total agreement. Just because you are too stupid to even try to understand doesn't make my complaints any less valid.

Your turn now to tell me how I would be able to do with whatever software amp sim what I can do with my hardware setup. But, as a decent advice: Don't even bother, it's impossible (I know, you don't understand this, but perhaps one day you will...).

[kylen]

Live is a new experience every gig - even during the same gig - you gots to be able to adjust stuff on-the-fly...if you want to use a particular tool that is...

[guitarzan]

I am absolutely sure you will still continue telling me how Amplitube is able to do the job in exactly the same fashion. Just that you don't even try to understand what I'm complaining about. Either because you're too ignorant, too dumb or too much of a fanboy.
I'm really sorry for these harsh words, but given how much I explained my problems in detail, given that by now almost everybody else seems to understand the problem, I fail to see any other reasons why you would still be trying to tell me it was all good and fine, whereas it clearly isn't.

Sascha, it's probably best if we all just surrender and drink the koolaid...I mean, how can you find fault with the very amp sim that Jimi Hendrix himself used?

Maybe the OP should just change the Subject title (yet again) to Jesus Loves Amplitube and be done with it.

[Sascha Franck]

Oh, and regarding this:

Changing the volume knob changes the amount of distortion saturation, not so much the actual output volume.

Ever heard of amp channels with two volume knobs? Such as gain and volume (the latter sometimes being labeled "channel master" or something)?

Oh yes, I even agree, changing the channel master defenitely *is* changing the interaction between the pre- and poweramp stages of whatever amp. But, in a live context, you can usually perfectly ignore this. If you want your clean sounds to be louder, you turn up the friggin' channel volume and that's it. Same as with master volume. Even if the amp is sounding best fully cranked up, you just don't do that in a rehearsal room, a small club or wherever.

And heck, software based emulations would be just *perfect* to overcome these limitations as you could have a channel/patch based volume sitting *behind* all the shebang (and all proper software amp sims I know of do have such a control).

Yet, all this doesn't change anything regarding my complaints. It's even making the issue worse, as software *could* overcome said limitiations - but it isn't.

[Sascha Franck]

Sascha, it's probably best if we all just surrender and drink the koolaid...I mean, how can you find fault with the very amp sim that Jimi Hendrix himself used?

Guess we're out of luck with that. You can't buy any koolaid over here anywhere.

[redshift factor]

I understand what you're saying perfectly, Sascha, and you should understand perfectly what I'm saying about the volume knob in AT2 primarily affecting distortion saturation, not actual dB from the audio device output. Since "volume" in software is dependent on the mixer channel settings and audio hardware output level, it makes little sense for the AT2 volume knob to affect real world volume that much, particularly when taking bit resolution considerations into account. Once again, this is why I suggested changing your audio device output volume is you want it louder, instead. Another thing you could try is a compressor on the audio device's output, or use the EQ stomp module in AT2 as a gain booster on your clean patches. There is just no way you're going to get the AC-30 model, for example, nearly as loud on average signal level as the Mesa Boogie or JCM-900 models, due to the differences in the models' dynamic responses, unless you compress or boost the signal before or after the amp module, greatly reducing the clean amp's dynamic variation.

And finally, it seems you want one (semi)global knob to affect the volume of some amps but not others. But each amp has its own unique dynamic response. The amount you need to turn up a Fender model is not going to be the same as you may need to turn up the Vox model. If you wanted to stick to just a 2 channel setup like you would with a real amp, with one preset for clean, and one preset for distortion, then that would be easy enough to do.

[Sascha Franck]

Once again, this is why I suggested changing your audio device output volume is you want it louder, instead.

Argh! This would affect ALL sounds - clearly something I don't want or need. I want to raise one "channel types" volume (in my example the clean sounds), so the relative volume changes between my "channel types" are affected. An overall output level knob wouldn't do this any good.

or use the EQ stomp module in AT2 as a gain booster on your clean patches.

Again, this would've to be done to ALL patches that I want to be affected. And it's absolutely making no sense either.

There is just no way you're going to get the AC-30 model, for example, nearly as loud on average signal level as the Mesa Boogie or JCM-900 models, due to the differences in the models' dynamic responses, unless you compress or boost the signal before or after the amp module, greatly reducing the clean amp's dynamic variation.

I would turn down the louder modules in the first place. Where's the problem? Also, doesn't AT offer some kind of overall volume (not affecting the used amp behaviour at all)? I'm sure it does, otherwise it'd be just flawed design, considering we're dealing with software here.

Still, you don't understand my needs at all.

When playing live, I have my patches sort of grouped into different categories. Usually, I can get along fine with 3 basic sounds. Clean, crunch, overdriven. The volume balance I need between those channels depends a lot on a whole variety of factors. Used instrument, musical context, acoustics of the venue being the most important ones.

Now, in an ideal world, there would be some sort of "global utility mixer" in whatever ampsim software. So, I'd create a patch and just route it to my "clean sounds" group. Whenever I needed my clean sounds to be louder, I would just raise the volume of the related group fader.
The very same mixer could be used to adjust overall reverb levels (the reverb units themselves could have a checkbox, whether their wet mix level would be allowed to be affected by the utility settings or not).
The very same could be possible for the speaker sims. In a fullrange scenario, I would just like to keep them on. When monitoring through a guitar speaker, I wouldn't.
And, in an advanced scenario, one could even change other things per "utility group channel", such as the drive on the crunch channels (after all, it's just a booster needed), the highs on my overdriven sounds (just an EQ is what's needed) and so on.

All these are EXACTLY the parameters I'm changing all the time with my hardware rig. In the end, because it's so comfortable, I almost *never* had to use more than one single bank of 10 sounds for all my live needs over a decade or so (unless I was doing some experimental stuff). I could just adjust my rig from "heavy rock" to "smooth goovejazz" in a matter of seconds, keeping the sounds organized exactly the same.
As a blatantly oversimplified example, for a more rock-based gig I would turn the reverb return level down, I would probably raise the amount of drive on the crunch channels and I would perhaps raise the highs on the lead channel as well. And I may even have the clean sounds go a bit crunchy. When doing a "pop-ish" gig, I would just go vice versa. None of these actions requiring more than a few seconds. In addition, changung things during the gig is just freaking easy. I walk to my amp and turn a knob. Done.
And, as another example, when changing the clean patches to be a bit crunchier, this would simply affect all the clean patches I might be using. So, the delayed, the flanged, the flanged and delayed, the "more reverb" and whatever patches would be affected instantly as well. No need to ever re-save a single patch.

Ok, finally, all this is more or less possible using NIs Kore. But: Why would I even have to use it? These are some functionalities that should be provided by the amp sim software in the first place already. Just that *nobody* ever seems to be thinking about live player needs at all.

Sure, you get more sounds from those amp sims, you don't need to carry around huge rigs anymore (exactly the reasons why I would love to work with them live), but you're losing a WHOLE LOT of convenience.

Finally, I have all sorts of stuff at my purposal. Said hardware rig (even if I sold the rack units apart from the Soldano preamp), a Pod XT, a VAmp, two laptops (one PC, one Mac), two MIDI floor controllers, a whole variety of software (including GuitarRig 2 and ReValver), still some rack FX (such as TCs G-Force), a bunch of floor pedals, etc...
Why is it then, that I still get back to the rusty (and really not so shiny sounding) GT-5 quite often? Exactly, because in a live context, convenience *extremely* often is worth a lot more than having a lot of perfect sounds - which, in the end, due to the lack of quick tweakability, aren't that perfect anymore at all.
Very often I only have 2-5 minutes to get my stuff rigged up and checked. Not enough to re-save all the pathes needed.

[beergeek]

What Sascha is talking about actually exists but not in an ampsim (that I know of.)

If I understand correctly (both Sascha and how Philharmonik works) you can do this with your presets in Philharmonik and probably any SampleTank based product.

There is an effects "rack" that you can use as a send or as an insert.

Used as a send, adjustments to the reverb, eq, compressor etc. affect every preset currently loaded providing that preset is set to use the "rack" as a send.

If Philharmonik was an ampsim, you could save your clean sounds as one combi, your distorted sounds as another combi and so on. During the sound check you could make you adjustments to the send rack and save the combi. Then all you would need to do is switch combis and use the presets in the combis to achieve what Sascha is talking about.

So IK actually has a kind of implementation of what Sascha is talking about but it's their sample engine not their ampsim engine.

Now if AT2 was multi-out and you could save patches with output channels, you could at least use some kind of software mixer on those channels and that would do it too. BUT you'd be adding latency wouldn't you?

Anyway, I dig the idea and I'm actually surprised that no one has done it since it makes sense if you want a gigging musician to use your software live.

[AndrewSimon]

Woah. We have a new web guy and it is Friday. He's made his first mistake which is the price. Not sure how but... anyway, it's been fixed. No wonder!!!! I was reading your post and scratching my head. Have a look at the price now http://www.esoundz.com/details.php?ProductID=1646

I am sure it is cheaper than your upgrade to AT2 was. Whew. Good thing I caught that before the weekend.

Anyway, yes there will be a demo to play soon. (real soon)

Cool, Thanks

[redshift factor]

The AmpliTube2 plugin is a VST effect, not a VSTi. As such it can't have multiple outs. IK Multimedia could however alter the stand alone version so that the output audio device is set and saved in each preset program, instead of globally for the entire software. Then you could have as many real amp "channels" as your audio device has audio outs. You would simply set their different volume levels with a hardware mixer, or your audio device's mixer panel.

This is something that actually makes sense, at least for the stand alone version, which is what you would use live anyways. My point from the start has been that a purely software solution just doesn't make sense, it needs to be done with hardware. Perhaps this is something users could bug IKMM to implement. If its actually that much of an issue for gigging musicians, then I'm sure they will implement it (one day).

I do foresee one possible problem with that, and that would be compensating for a change in audio devices, for instance if you create your sounds on your desktop DAW, but gig with a laptop. Or if you try to share presets with a friend who has a different soundcard than you, or if you ever upgrade to a new audio card.

A possible solution for this would be for IK to create some kind of internal software channels, like "Output Group 1" and "Output Group 2", etc (similar to group channels in Cubase), which would be the output destinations that are assigned and saved in each preset program. Then these software based output groups would be assigned to any of the available physical audio device outputs globally. That way, if you change audio devices, you need only reassign these handful of groups, rather than remapping every single preset program. The software should be flexible enough to allow you to send mutiple output groups to a single hardware out, in the event that you are using the software on a computer with less hardware outs than enabled/assigned software output groups. At this point, I suppose they could create software-based master volumes for each output group while they're at it, for people who only have one audio out, like laptop users. It would still be far preferable to control real volume with hardware, however.

Receptor users, who need to use the VST version would be out of luck though, at least until IKMM releases a VST3.0 version, perhaps.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

The AmpliTube2 plugin is a VST effect, not a VSTi. As such it can't have multiple outs. IK Multimedia could however alter the stand alone version so that the output audio device is set and saved in each preset program, instead of globally for the entire software. Then you could have as many real amp "channels" as your audio device has audio outs. You would simply set their different volume levels with a hardware mixer, or your audio device's mixer panel.

If I want a dual rig with AT2 I'll set that up in AT2 then pan one channel hard right and the other hard left. After that I use Sonar's bounce to create a split mono track for each channel. Works like a charm, and isn't all that much more involved than what you're talking about.